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 Post subject: reading out tsumego
Post #1 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:37 am 
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Hi all, I have been putting in an effort to really get my tsumego in on a daily basis, and I've been using beartsumego, badukpop, forest of tsumego, and gogrinder.

I've found that as I read things out I often get the first move for black correct, but have trouble reading White's response. Many times I will anticipate a different move from what white plays, or the white move played wont seem logical to me.

Any advice on a way ahead for me? Anyone else had this issue as a beginner?

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 Post subject: Re: reading out tsumego
Post #2 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 8:21 am 
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After you've thought of what you think black's first move might be, imagine that board position. Then pretend you're the white player, and pretend you're trying to solve the problem starting from that position...

One of the benefits of doing go problems is not just to get the right answer - it's the exercise of exploring different possible sequences of moves, and holding those variations in your head.

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 Post subject: Re: reading out tsumego
Post #3 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 9:48 am 
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Gobani wrote:
Hi all, I have been putting in an effort to really get my tsumego in on a daily basis, and I've been using beartsumego, badukpop, forest of tsumego, and gogrinder.

I've found that as I read things out I often get the first move for black correct, but have trouble reading White's response. Many times I will anticipate a different move from what white plays, or the white move played wont seem logical to me.

Any advice on a way ahead for me? Anyone else had this issue as a beginner?


Overlooking your opponent's best plays is a common failing, not only as a beginner. :) It is called selfish reading or wishful reading.

Beginner problems are good in that they are typically shallow. That means that they can be explored thoroughly. If you have really solved a problem, then you not only have the first move correct, you also have a correct answer for each possible reply by your opponent. As Black you don't have to read White's response, you have to read every one of White's responses. You don't have to anticipate White's move, and it doesn't have to be logical. You have to account for all of them.

Now, in a game you don't have the luxury of looking at all of your opponent's responses, and for advanced problems you should be able to reject some of them because of your knowledge and experience. As a beginner you have to acquire than knowledge and experience. You can gain it by examining all of your opponent's responses. OC, sometimes you will see a response that refutes your play, and you can stop there. ;)

Books and such seldom account for all of your opponent's responses, but that is for the author's convenience, not yours. Be thorough and you will learn a lot. :)

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 Post subject: Re: reading out tsumego
Post #4 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 10:00 am 
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For your training, start with one-move problems (i.e. problems that Black -- assumed to be the one to play -- can solve in only one move).

Continue with three-move problems.
Following Kirby's valuable advice, all board positions after your first Black move(s) are "new" problems with White to play (and a reversed aim, e.g. "White to live" instead of "Black to kill").
Often you will find that there is no way for White to e.g. live, so your first Black move was correct. Otherwise, you will have to examine other Black starting moves.

Many of the board positions after your choice(s) for White's move should already be known to you for a large portion (due to your starting step with solving one-move problems).

If you think that you are well doing with these three-moves problems, look for five-move problems. The above describes principle is valid also here, so that you will gain many "new" problems. Again, a large problem of these will already be known to you.

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 Post subject: Re: reading out tsumego
Post #5 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 5:14 pm 
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Thanks everyone for the replies, nice to know I'm not the only one who has these problems.

Cassandra wrote:
For your training, start with one-move problems (i.e. problems that Black -- assumed to be the one to play -- can solve in only one move).

Continue with three-move problems.
Following Kirby's valuable advice, all board positions after your first Black move(s) are "new" problems with White to play (and a reversed aim, e.g. "White to live" instead of "Black to kill").
Often you will find that there is no way for White to e.g. live, so your first Black move was correct. Otherwise, you will have to examine other Black starting moves.

Many of the board positions after your choice(s) for White's move should already be known to you for a large portion (due to your starting step with solving one-move problems).

If you think that you are well doing with these three-moves problems, look for five-move problems. The above describes principle is valid also here, so that you will gain many "new" problems. Again, a large problem of these will already be known to you.


Any recommendations how I could find a list of tsumego problems by # of moves it takes to solve them?

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 Post subject: Re: reading out tsumego
Post #6 Posted: Fri Mar 13, 2020 11:04 pm 
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This one?

https://senseis.xmp.net/?OneThousandAnd ... thProblems

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