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Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

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Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:38 am
by Knotwilg
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Mistake 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . a X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A skirmish has been going on in the lower right. How to continue? Turn at ''a'', the border of two moyos? Draw out and fight at ''b''? Or take the big point at ''c''? White's decision lost 4 points and dropped him from 80% to 60%.

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 3:35 am
by jlt
Probably a wrong answer but I'll play.
Let's try to imagine some continuations for each move.

With move a, White is adding a stone to a group which is already quite strong; on the other hand, Black increases his moyo while swallowing the two white stones on a big scale.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move a
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
With move b, White reduces Black's potential on the right side but needs to struggle a lot to survive, and allows Black to control the center.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move b
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
With move c, White does reduce Black's potential on the top but also helps Black to build solid territory while attacking.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Move c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . 4 . 1 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . 3 . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Hard to decide. I have a slight preference for c.

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:31 am
by pwaldron
Knotwilg wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$ Mistake 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . a X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
A skirmish has been going on in the lower right. How to continue? Turn at ''a'', the border of two moyos? Draw out and fight at ''b''? Or take the big point at ''c''? White's decision lost 4 points and dropped him from 80% to 60%.
I think it has to be 'a' or 'c'. 'b' just creates a weak group to attack, with no obvious upside.

My shape autopilot says 'a'. I would call it thick (John?) and it casts a menacing glance towards the group on the left. Without the weakness on the left I'm not sure how good a move it would be, since I think there's also a danger it could be overconcentrated.

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 7:11 am
by dfan
a is the sort of move I imagine a strong player yelling at me for not making.

At this point in my development, I try to make those moves without spending too much time trying to talk myself out of it.

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 4:47 pm
by Knotwilg
Solution
A, the turn, leveraging the two disposable stones, creating a thick wall which will affect everything to its left, in particular Black's floating group.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Best
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . b . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 1 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Mistake 7
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O X . . . . . . . . c . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . X . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . 2 X X O O X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O X X X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d O O X . |
$$ | . . O , X X . O . O . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O O X . . . . . . . X O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
The important idea is that saving the two stones here is heavy. They cut the black center stones but don't affect anything else. Black can strengthen the center stones at the expense of White's development at the bottom and in the center, also taking advantage of the aji at D.

Re: Dieter's ABC of mistakes - 7

Posted: Mon Apr 12, 2021 11:11 pm
by Uberdude
Turn like Shuko would. It's double sente to boot. In fact I find it odd that it is White's move in this shape: locally I expect White just extended (hane may have been better) and then black tenukid (top left block looks like possible place for the n bad timed gote) rather than keep on pushing.
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