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Semeai result?

Posted: Tue Dec 06, 2022 5:04 pm
by dany
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . . . . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . B X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 7:37 am
by Kirby
Can't white just do this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 3 . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:43 am
by lightvector
Kirby wrote:Can't white just do this?
Then what about this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Seki?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . 9 8 6 4 0 X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . 5 2 1 3 . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O 7 X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Ko?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . 5 4 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 3 6 . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 8:53 am
by Gérard TAILLE
To avoid the yose ko mentionned by Lightvector why not
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 9:52 am
by dany
lightvector wrote:
Kirby wrote:Can't white just do this?
Then what about this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Seki?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . 9 8 6 4 0 X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . 5 2 1 3 . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O 7 X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Ko?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . 5 4 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 3 6 . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Yes. After moves 1,3 there will be ko or seki

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:08 am
by dany
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
To avoid the yose ko mentionned by Lightvector why not
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
The right answer!

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:09 am
by dany
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc How respond to 4?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:22 am
by jlt
Like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc How respond to 4
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 5 . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 10:55 am
by dany
jlt wrote:Like this?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc How respond to 4
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 5 . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Yes
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc what happens next?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . 5 2 1 . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:06 am
by jlt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc what happens next?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . 9 4 8 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . 5 2 1 6 7 . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc ko
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . O X . B O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:15 am
by dany
jlt wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc what happens next?
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . 9 4 8 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . 5 2 1 6 7 . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc ko
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . O X X O . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . O X . B O . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |[/go]
white can play better

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:26 am
by jlt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . 4 8 3 7 X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . 5 2 1 6 . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Black dead
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . X X O O . O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . O X . X . W O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |[/go]

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:29 am
by Gérard TAILLE
good point jlt
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . 4 . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . b 2 1 a . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
In any case white "a" seems better than white "b" because after white "a" black has no more ko threat available

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 11:51 am
by Gomoto
Techniques of Capturing Race by Tsuruyama Atsushi 8p
Nihon Kiin Go Channel for overseas

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpxuHGhiXW0

Re: Semeai result?

Posted: Wed Dec 07, 2022 12:04 pm
by dany
dany wrote:
Gérard TAILLE wrote:
To avoid the yose ko mentionned by Lightvector why not
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc White to play
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . 3 . X O X X . . . |
$$ | . X X X O O . . 2 1 . . . O O X . . . |
$$ | . . O X O X O . X X O O O O O X X . . |
$$ | . X X O X . O O X O O X X X X O X . . |
$$ | X . . O O O X O O X O O X O O O O X . |
$$ | X . O . O X X O X X X X X X O O X X . |
$$ | X O . . O O X O X . . X . X X O X . X |
$$ | O . . . O X X X . . X O X X O O O X . |
$$ | . O . O X X . . X X O O O X . O X . X |
$$ | . . . O O O X O X X O . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O . . . X X O O X O O O . O X O . |
$$ | . X O X X X X O O X X . O . O . O X . |
$$ | . O O O X O O O . . . . O . O O X . . |
$$ | . O X X X O . O O X . . . O X X X X . |
$$ | O O X . X . O . O X . . . O O X O . . |
$$ | O X O O O O O O X O . . O O X O O . . |
$$ | X X X X O X X O X O O O . O X X O X . |
$$ | . . X . X . . X X X O X O X X O X . X |
$$ | . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
The right answer!
There is another right answer