$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X . X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X . X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Re: October 9 endgame problem
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:31 am
by Loons
I don't know anything about endgame. I drew this. Is it the answer ?
tree.jpg (25.82 KiB) Viewed 6304 times
Oh, I get it. I have described the question, not the answer.
Re: October 9 endgame problem
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:43 am
by illluck
D19 best for black, E19 best for white I think. 14 points double-gote?
Edit: Ah, black will let white capture the three stones and take corner (but E19 still a bit better than just capturing corner), so 11.5 double-gote?
Edit 2: Ok, now I'm just confused XD Edit 1 is wrong, because black will first capture the two white stones before giving up the three stones (wE19 bD19 wF19 bE18 wF19 bB19 wJ19), and at the end K19 is white's sente. So it seems like that sequence is 11 points double-gote?
Re: October 9 endgame problem
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 7:59 am
by Jordus
D19 for Black
E19 for white... Best to take the corner
I originally said A19 or B19 for white but found that was small once I played it out....
Re: October 9 endgame problem
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 3:49 pm
by emeraldemon
I agree with illuck's analysis, I think it's 11 pts gote (i.e. 5.5 points miai count). Here's the sequence
$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O 2 1 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X 4 X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O 2 1 3 X X . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X 4 X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . 6 O X . 5 X X 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X X X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$W $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . 6 O X . 5 X X 7 . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X X X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O . O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$ $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . X . X . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X . X X X O . O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
After this, black has 3 points territory and 4 captures = 7 white has 2 points territory and 3 captures = 5, net B+2.
compare with:
$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O 1 . . X X s s . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X . X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
[go]$$B $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . O 1 . . X X s s . . . . . . . . . | $$ | X X O X . X O X O X . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O X X X X O O X . X . . X . . . . . | $$ | . . O O O O O X X , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Now black has 3 captures and 10 points (incl. marked) for B+13. Difference is 11. Of course, that whole exchange may not be sente, but where would white tennuki?
Re: October 9 endgame problem
Posted: Sun Oct 10, 2010 8:51 pm
by Darrell
I also agreed with illuck's sequence, but as illuck points out, white has a 1-point sente move to make at the end, so I think it is 12 points gote.
Re: October 9 endgame problem
Posted: Mon Oct 11, 2010 1:21 pm
by Bill Spight
Good going, guys!
(;CA[ISO8859-1]SZ[19]GM[1]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]ST[2]FF[4]PB[ ]FG[259:]PM[2]AB[bb][dc][cc][fc][ab][ec][id][ga][hd][ha][jb][hb][fb][db][kc][nc][ic]PW[ ]AW[cd][cb][ca][ed][dd][gd][fd][bc][ac][ib][gb][be][gc][hc]GN[ ] ( ;C[In the marked regions Black has 20 points.]B[da]CR[aa][ba][ca][cb][ea][fa][eb][ib][ia][ja][ka][kb][jc][la][lb][ma][mb] ) ( ;C[Tesuji.]W[ea] ( ;B[fa] ;W[da] ;B[ia] ;W[ba] ;B[eb] ;C[In the marked regions, counting captures, Black has 10 points and White has 4 points, for a net of 6 points for Black. But Black can do better.]CR[ab][bb][ib][ja][ka][la][ma][mb][lb][kb][jc]W[aa] ) ( ;C[Corre]B[da] ;C[Tesuji.]W[fa] ;B[eb] ;C[Black cannot capture this stone, because of snapback.]W[fa] ;B[ba] ;W[ia] ;B[tt] ;C[White sente.]W[ja] ;C[Including captives, in the marked regions Black has 13 points and White has 5 points, for a net of 8 points for Black.]B[ka]CR[aa][ca][cb][ha][hb][jc][kb][la][lb][ma][mb] )
)
)
This is gote.
In the marked regions, the original position is worth 14 points for Black. Each gote gains 6 points.
