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Running battle game
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 12:19 am
by Numsgil
Up to about move 115 I didn't feel particularly good about the game. I think I botched the pincer joseki (in that I don't really know any pincer joseki for the 3-4, so I was sort of mimicing a 4-4 joseki, and it doesn't seem to really work very well), and the game became a huge running battle between a weak central black group and two of my weak-ish groups on either side of him.
I eventually forced a resignation by playing a significantly better end game. But that aside, I'd like some feedback on if I was doing the right thing in the middle game or not. KGS score estimate had us pretty close for the entirety of the middle game, but I didn't really feel comfortable with it. But then, I suspect I need to be winning by like 30 points to feel comfortable with a game.
Specifically, I gave up running the right group half way through to make life, and I think that was a mistake. Should I just have kept running? I was aiming to eventually counterattack the central black group, but letting black chase me half way across the board doesn't feel particularly good.
Also, running allowed him to develop the sides pretty well, which always makes me feel a bit uncomfortable.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]TM[1500]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]
PW[Numsgil]PB[sloto]WR[5k]BR[5k]DT[2010-10-29]PC[The KGS Go Server at
http://www.gokgs.com/]C[Numsgil [5k]: hi
sloto [5k]: hi
]RE[W+Resign]
;B[pd]BL[1495.055]
;W[dp]WL[1498.074]
;B[cd]BL[1489.141]
;W[pp]WL[1494.908]
;B[cn]BL[1485.842]
;W[fp]WL[1489.052]
;B[bp]BL[1481.841]
;W[cq]WL[1487.319]
;B[ck]BL[1479.141]
;W[ed]WL[1483.359]
;B[hd]BL[1475.778]
;W[cc]WL[1480.266]
;B[bc]BL[1473.113]
;W[cb]WL[1458.785]
;B[dd]BL[1464.643]
;W[ec]WL[1457.038]
;B[bb]BL[1459.785]
;W[hb]WL[1440.827]
;B[dc]BL[1443.228]
;W[db]WL[1438.551]
;B[ee]BL[1441.136]
;W[fe]WL[1419.289]
;B[de]BL[1432.099]
;W[fd]WL[1399.227]
;B[jc]BL[1416.968]
;W[gf]WL[1377.275]
;B[eg]BL[1411.358]
;W[nc]WL[1361.057]
;B[pf]BL[1401.313]
;W[ne]WL[1354.781]
;B[jf]BL[1394.021]
;W[ng]WL[1351.888]
;B[ph]BL[1390.935]
;W[gh]WL[1338.714]
;B[jh]BL[1385.956]
;W[eh]WL[1328.973]
;B[dh]BL[1381.151]
;W[ei]WL[1323.705]
;B[di]BL[1374.557]
;W[fg]WL[1313.519]
;B[dg]BL[1342.126]
;W[gj]WL[1303.37]
;B[jj]BL[1328.802]
;W[pb]WL[1246.638]
;B[qc]BL[1322.292]
;W[lb]WL[1240.647]
;B[jb]BL[1312.424]
;W[qb]WL[1238.533]
;B[rb]BL[1309.528]
;W[jq]WL[1221.266]
;B[ca]BL[1297.641]
;W[ea]WL[1216.543]
;B[ni]BL[1289.184]
;W[oh]WL[1205.574]
;B[oi]BL[1283.127]
;W[pi]WL[1204.019]
;B[qh]BL[1280.001]
;W[pj]WL[1194.695]
;B[pm]BL[1269.594]
;W[ok]WL[1186.934]
;B[nm]BL[1264.735]
;W[mk]WL[1183.754]
;B[np]BL[1259.891]
;W[pq]WL[1152.529]
;B[nq]BL[1251.587]
;W[oo]WL[1149.255]
;B[li]BL[1227.827]
;W[ll]WL[1143.153]
;B[ln]BL[1223.576]
;W[mm]WL[1139.74]
;B[mn]BL[1204.351]
;W[nn]WL[1137.425]
;B[on]BL[1197.56]
;W[no]WL[1134.989]
;B[qk]BL[1193.778]
;W[mo]WL[1110.46]
;B[pk]BL[1168.657]
;W[oj]WL[1104.395]
;B[jn]BL[1155.008]
;W[jl]WL[1099.508]
;B[hk]BL[1127.557]
;W[im]WL[1092.092]
;B[jp]BL[1122.407]
;W[kq]WL[1081.499]
;B[ho]BL[1115.846]
;W[gm]WL[1068.751]
;B[fo]BL[1111.712]
;W[gp]WL[1062.904]
;B[go]BL[1109.071]
;W[ik]WL[1050.978]
;B[hl]BL[1082.004]
;W[hj]WL[1043.977]
;B[hm]BL[1075.575]
;W[ij]WL[1041.466]
;B[ii]BL[1061.473]
;W[kd]WL[1036.594]
;B[nh]BL[1028.763]
;W[og]WL[1033.581]
;B[mg]BL[1025.054]
;W[jd]WL[1025.048]
;B[mf]BL[993.576]
;W[oe]WL[1021.813]
;B[iq]BL[968.893]
;W[kp]WL[992.691]
;B[jo]BL[960.595]
;W[bq]WL[988.838]
;B[bo]BL[946.686]
;W[eo]WL[982.614]
;B[en]BL[938.861]
;W[ie]WL[953.599]
;B[gr]BL[911.628]
;W[fr]WL[945.305]
;B[hq]BL[894.239]
;W[er]WL[930.145]
;B[qo]BL[887.974]
;W[pn]WL[922.88]
;B[om]BL[882.3]
;W[qn]WL[920.655]
;B[ro]BL[862.84]
;W[qm]WL[907.166]
;B[qj]BL[820.853]
;W[qi]WL[878.899]
;B[ri]BL[817.168]
;W[rj]WL[872.384]
;B[rk]BL[803.538]
;W[rm]WL[845.054]
;B[po]BL[783.73]
;W[pl]WL[838.093]
;B[lo]BL[758.289]
;W[lp]WL[823.002]
;B[op]BL[741.836]
;W[mp]WL[820.53]
;B[qq]BL[739.811]
;W[qr]WL[808.251]
;B[rq]BL[734.658]
;W[rr]WL[792.426]
;B[pr]BL[708.744]
;W[or]WL[786.083]
;B[ps]BL[706.648]
;W[nr]WL[775.71]
;B[qp]BL[695.997]
;W[oq]WL[767.238]
;B[oc]BL[618.49]
;W[ob]WL[761.129]
;B[gn]BL[587.138]
;W[rh]WL[717.183]
;B[sj]BL[580.255]
;W[pg]WL[712.984]
;B[qg]BL[576.021]
;W[qf]WL[711.235]
;B[rg]BL[574.306]
;W[rf]WL[709.996]
;B[sh]BL[572.113]
;W[pe]WL[707.599]
;B[ol]BL[519.947]
;W[nl]WL[704.297]C[Numsgil [5k]: gg
sloto [5k]: thx
])
Re: Running battle game
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 5:37 am
by EdLee
14: (C18) Locally, this is wrong shape. Correct is D17 -- however,
move 12 (C17) is unfavorable for White with this pincer, according to Ishida.
The simplest reply for move 12 is the 1-space jump to E14,
after which White can make the exchange of (W C17 - B B17),
but then White would treat the C17 stone lightly (and not pull back immediately to D17.)
Re: Running battle game
Posted: Fri Oct 29, 2010 9:24 am
by Bill Spight
A few comments.

As usual, no guarantees.
(;GM[1]FF[4]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]SZ[19]ST[2]CA[UTF-8]RU[Japanese]PW[Numsgil]KM[6.5]GN[ ]FG[259:]PB[sloto]BR[5k]C[Numsgil [5k]: hisloto [5k]: hi]PC[The KGS Go Server at <!-- m --><a class="postlink" href="http://www.gokgs.com/">http://www.gokgs.com/</a><!-- m -->]OT[5x30 byo-yomi]RE[W+Resign]TM[1500.0]WR[5k]PM[0]DT[2010-10-29]
;BL[1495.055]B[pd]
;W[dp]WL[1498.074]
;BL[1489.141]B[cd]
;W[pp]WL[1494.908]
;BL[1485.842]B[cn]
;W[fp]WL[1489.052]
;BL[1481.841]B[bp]
(
;C[*** I think that this is a good place to leave here and approach the top left corner. Inducing an extension on the left side will strengthen Black in the direction of that corner, and if White then approaches that corner, the bottom side will still be open. See variation.]W[cq]WL[1487.319]
;BL[1479.141]B[ck]
;W[ed]WL[1483.359]
;BL[1475.778]B[hd]
;W[cc]WL[1480.266]
;BL[1473.113]B[bc]
(
;C[*** Horrid. If you are going to descend, why did you make a high approach? See variation.]W[cb]WL[1458.785]
;BL[1464.643]B[dd]
;W[ec]WL[1457.038]
;BL[1459.785]B[bb]
(
;C[*** Don't you feel how White has been pushed around? See variation.]W[hb]WL[1440.827]
;BL[1443.228]B[dc]
;W[db]WL[1438.551]
;BL[1441.136]B[ee]
;W[fe]WL[1419.289]
;BL[1432.099]B[de]
(
;C[*** Great! Give yourself bad shape. See variation.]W[fd]WL[1399.227]
;BL[1416.968]B[jc]
(
;C[*** Proverb: Strong players do not play kosumi. See variation.]W[gf]WL[1377.275]
(
;BL[1411.358]C[*** Inviting an attack. See variation.]B[eg]
(
;C[*** Why give Black a pincer? See variation.]W[nc]WL[1361.057]
;BL[1401.313]B[pf]
(
;C[*** Thinking big. But see variation.]W[ne]WL[1354.781]
;BL[1394.021]C[*** Splitting attack!]B[jf]
;W[ng]WL[1351.888]
;BL[1390.935]B[ph]
;W[gh]WL[1338.714]
;BL[1385.956]B[jh]
(
;C[*** See variation.]W[eh]WL[1328.973]
;BL[1381.151]B[dh]
;W[ei]WL[1323.705]
;BL[1374.557]B[di]
;W[fg]WL[1313.519]
;BL[1342.126]B[dg]
(
;C[*** You have been reading too many shape books. See variations.]W[gj]WL[1303.37]
;BL[1328.802]B[jj]
;W[pb]WL[1246.638]
;BL[1322.292]B[qc]
;C[*** The second line is the line of {fill in the blank}.]W[lb]WL[1240.647]
(
;BL[1312.424]C[*** Small. See variation.]B[jb]
;W[qb]WL[1238.533]
;BL[1309.528]B[rb]
(
;C[*** See variation.]W[jq]WL[1221.266]
;BL[1297.641]B[ca]
(
;C[*** Leaves a peep. See variation and variation for next.]W[ea]WL[1216.543]
(
;BL[1289.184]B[ni]
(
;C[*** Great. Give yourself a weak group. See variation.]W[oh]WL[1205.574]
;BL[1283.127]B[oi]
;W[pi]WL[1204.019]
;BL[1280.001]B[qh]
;W[pj]WL[1194.695]
;BL[1269.594]C[*** Ouch! Too bad your opponent made a hash of the attack. End of comment]B[pm]
;W[ok]WL[1186.934]
;BL[1264.735]B[nm]
;W[mk]WL[1183.754]
;BL[1259.891]B[np]
;W[pq]WL[1152.529]
;BL[1251.587]B[nq]
;W[oo]WL[1149.255]
;BL[1227.827]B[li]
;W[ll]WL[1143.153]
;BL[1223.576]B[ln]
;W[mm]WL[1139.74]
;BL[1204.351]B[mn]
;W[nn]WL[1137.425]
;BL[1197.56]B[on]
;W[no]WL[1134.989]
;BL[1193.778]B[qk]
;W[mo]WL[1110.46]
;BL[1168.657]B[pk]
;W[oj]WL[1104.395]
;BL[1155.008]B[jn]
;W[jl]WL[1099.508]
;BL[1127.557]B[hk]
;W[im]WL[1092.092]
;BL[1122.407]B[jp]
;W[kq]WL[1081.499]
;BL[1115.846]B[ho]
;W[gm]WL[1068.751]
;BL[1111.712]B[fo]
;W[gp]WL[1062.904]
;BL[1109.071]B[go]
;W[ik]WL[1050.978]
;BL[1082.004]B[hl]
;W[hj]WL[1043.977]
;BL[1075.575]B[hm]
;W[ij]WL[1041.466]
;BL[1061.473]B[ii]
;W[kd]WL[1036.594]
;BL[1028.763]B[nh]
;W[og]WL[1033.581]
;BL[1025.054]B[mg]
;W[jd]WL[1025.048]
;BL[993.576]B[mf]
;W[oe]WL[1021.813]
;BL[968.893]B[iq]
;W[kp]WL[992.691]
;BL[960.595]B[jo]
;W[bq]WL[988.838]
;BL[946.686]B[bo]
;W[eo]WL[982.614]
;BL[938.861]B[en]
;W[ie]WL[953.599]
;BL[911.628]B[gr]
;W[fr]WL[945.305]
;BL[894.239]B[hq]
;W[er]WL[930.145]
;BL[887.974]B[qo]
;W[pn]WL[922.88]
;BL[882.3]B[om]
;W[qn]WL[920.655]
;BL[862.84]B[ro]
;W[qm]WL[907.166]
;BL[820.853]B[qj]
;W[qi]WL[878.899]
;BL[817.168]B[ri]
;W[rj]WL[872.384]
;BL[803.538]B[rk]
;W[rm]WL[845.054]
;BL[783.73]B[po]
;W[pl]WL[838.093]
;BL[758.289]B[lo]
;W[lp]WL[823.002]
;BL[741.836]B[op]
;W[mp]WL[820.53]
;BL[739.811]B[qq]
;W[qr]WL[808.251]
;BL[734.658]B[rq]
;W[rr]WL[792.426]
;BL[708.744]B[pr]
;W[or]WL[786.083]
;BL[706.648]B[ps]
;W[nr]WL[775.71]
;BL[695.997]B[qp]
;W[oq]WL[767.238]
;BL[618.49]B[oc]
;W[ob]WL[761.129]
;BL[587.138]B[gn]
;W[rh]WL[717.183]
;BL[580.255]B[sj]
;W[pg]WL[712.984]
;BL[576.021]B[qg]
;W[qf]WL[711.235]
;BL[574.306]B[rg]
;W[rf]WL[709.996]
;BL[572.113]B[sh]
;W[pe]WL[707.599]
;BL[519.947]B[ol]
;C[Numsgil [5k]: ggsloto [5k]: thx]W[nl]WL[704.297]
)
(
;W[pc]
;B[qd]
;W[qm]
)
)
(
;B[fb]
;W[eb]
;C[*** Eyeless here.]B[gc]
;W[gb]
;B[fc]
;C[*** Note how useless the E-19 stone is now.]W[fa]
)
)
(
;W[eb]
)
)
(
;W[pc]
;B[qd]
;W[jq]
)
)
(
;B[kq]
)
)
(
;C[*** This is local shape.]W[ej]
)
(
;C[*** This is shape to make territory and attack Black.]W[hc]
)
)
(
;C[*** Once more, dear friends, we break a sector line.]W[ni]
)
)
(
;C[*** Mutual base point.]W[lc]
)
)
(
;W[mc]
)
)
(
;B[mc]
;W[eg]
;B[cg]
)
)
(
;W[fg]
;C[*** Black protects.]B[mc]
;W[dh]
)
)
(
;W[gd]
;C[*** Were you afraid of this?]B[gc]
;W[hc]
;B[ge]
;W[fd]
;B[ff]
(
;C[*** Timid.]W[fb]
;C[*** Good for Black.]B[he]
)
(
;W[he]
(
;B[gf]
;W[id]
)
(
;B[eb]
;W[gf]
;B[fb]
;W[id]
;B[fg]
)
)
)
)
(
;C[*** "Yearning to breath free"]W[ef]
)
)
(
;C[*** You want to keep Black low on the left side.]W[ef]
)
)
(
;C[*** The large knight's approch does not give Black a severe pincer.]W[fc]
)
)
White made too many moves on the second line early in the game. The splitting attack was not very strong. At some point it is reasonable to consider tenuki to take the large point on the bottom side. But that would leave White without a base. White missed the chance early on to make a base. Having done so, it became hard to go back, as doing so was inconsistent with the running plays. But White should not have allowed the splitting attack in the first place.