Life In 19x19

I decided to take a look the the Euro team championships to see how it had gone and noticed this

Board 1 Rob van Zeijst 7d (vanzeijst) – Ondrej Silt 6d (manocska) 1-0
Team Czechia challenged the result before the appeals commission

http://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps

Anybody know what happened that's causing an appeal?

oren wrote:I decided to take a look the the Euro team championships to see how it had gone and noticed this

Board 1 Rob van Zeijst 7d (vanzeijst) – Ondrej Silt 6d (manocska) 1-0
Team Czechia challenged the result before the appeals commission

http://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps

Anybody know what happened that's causing an appeal?

oops, I missed this thread. The time limits were not set correctly. Additionally there is a claim that the 'league manager' said the time limits were ok when asked by one player. Obviously, this is unverifiable, unlike the time limits.

The relevant rule is: If mistakes in colours or time-settings are found within the first six moves the game should be stopped and restarted with correct parameters. After move seven the (wrong) settings are valid for the game. Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game

As the league A manager i can clarify a little i hope.

Javaness wrote:oops, I missed this thread. The time limits were not set correctly.

There is no proof of that. When Ondrey entered byoyomi it appeared to run out very fast. I was not present at this very moment so i can not tell. But both players said afterwards that it run out very fast.

Javaness wrote:Additionally there is a claim that the 'league manager' said the time limits were ok when asked by one player. Obviously, this is unverifiable, unlike the time limits.

This is wrong. I said "i don't know". In fact i still don't know if it is possible to see the byoyomi settings when a game is running. In the games overview there was the number 0, but i have seen it only after the game was over. Don't know if it was at 10 when it started or if it changes when byoyomi has run out ...

Javaness wrote:The relevant rule is: If mistakes in colours or time-settings are found within the first six moves the game should be stopped and restarted with correct parameters. After move seven the (wrong) settings are valid for the game. Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game

Correct.
Additionally there is rule 10.4 ..cut .. The last date and time to start any game in the match is the original planned date (Tuesday) at 21:30 GMT. Games played after this date are not valid and will be counted as not played for both parties (see §15)

Thanks for the clarification. In glGo I may not be able to set up matches easily, but I can clearly see byoyomi settings and maintime in ongoing games.

Javaness wrote:Thanks for the clarification. In glGo I may not be able to set up matches easily, but I can clearly see byoyomi settings and maintime in ongoing games.

Do you know if the number changes if you run out of time? Or does it stay the same? And where do you see the number of stones used, e.g. 25?

It's nice to see that IGS is finally deciding to make some improvements.

betterlife wrote:

Javaness wrote:Thanks for the clarification. In glGo I may not be able to set up matches easily, but I can clearly see byoyomi settings and maintime in ongoing games.

Do you know if the number changes if you run out of time? Or does it stay the same? And where do you see the number of stones used, e.g. 25?

Well actually it might not be as simple as I first thought. In the "Room Listing" I can see the number of minutes selected for overtime - but I can't see the number of stones. I can't actually see the maintime - although if I join the game I can see the maintime.

Judging from that listing, the majority of those taking white were unaware that they might have to adjust komi to 6.5 before starting the game - something to make clearer for the next round, I think.

rottenhat wrote:Judging from that listing, the majority of those taking white were unaware that they might have to adjust komi to 6.5 before starting the game - something to make clearer for the next round, I think.

Yes definitely.

In the pandaGo-Client: Menu of the game window "edit" -> "Change Komi" -> enter "6.5"

Or type in the console "Komi 6.5"

The opponent has to accept the "new" komi in a little window with an ok button!

betterlife wrote:Yes definitely.

In the pandaGo-Client: Menu of the game window "edit" -> "Change Komi" -> enter "6.5"

Or type in the console "Komi 6.5"

The opponent has to accept the "new" komi in a little window with an ok button!

Well, a further problem was not being able to set the match conditions correctly from GoPanda - neither I nor my opponent could get it to accept main time of 60 minutes. Eventually we got the game set using the console. I am not entirely surprised that my opponent did not notice that komi was set to -5.5 - I am not sure what he was presented with on the receiving end of the Match request or whether he had any indication at all that komi would not be the standard 6.5.

But these are just little teething problems - overall I think it's a terrific event and I very much appreciate the work that is being put into it by the organisers.

Any news on this topic?

I guess, referee (appeal commission) will ask to finish this game with correct settings.
It will be my decision (if I am a referee)

And I thought after the EGC that if people can't handle their clock it is their own fault and nobody else is to blame. ;P

tapir wrote:And I thought after the EGC that if people can't handle their clock it is their own fault and nobody else is to blame. ;P

seeing the rules (http://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/4 )

Article 3 Playing on the internet – general aspects


4. Both captains are responsible that their players choose the right rule-set, colours, thinking time, komi and byoyomi
5. If mistakes in colours or time-settings are found within the first six moves the game should be stopped and restarted with correct parameters. After move seven the (wrong) settings are valid for the game. Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game
6. The player with the black stones invites the player with the white stones at the beginning of the game
7. A game is lost by time if a player fails to play 25 moves in the defined byoyomi period (10 minutes)

3.5 implies that the time settings stands after 6 moves. (but at least 3 people are involved in it)

The komi settings can be corrected at the end " Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game" but must it been noticed and claimed before the seventh move?

The sad thing is that (if everything was done according to the rules that Rob van Zeijst should have set the timesettings (rule 3.6) and that both captains are responsible (it is not mentioned anywhere who they are)

luckely the appeals commission ( http://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/13 )

has representatives of both countries (and a Russian) What if only one country was represented?

Lot to think about

willemien wrote:

tapir wrote:And I thought after the EGC that if people can't handle their clock it is their own fault and nobody else is to blame. ;P

seeing the rules (http://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/4 )

I think tapir was referring to breakfast's post, where he advocates a course of action that is inconsistent with the one in his own dispute with Rob van Zeijst at the EGC 2010. There it was ruled, in Alex' favor, that the clock is the responsibility of the players themselves. Here he advocates that faulty clock settings should not be the responsibility of the player.

Article 3 Playing on the internet – general aspects


4. Both captains are responsible that their players choose the right rule-set, colours, thinking time, komi and byoyomi
5. If mistakes in colours or time-settings are found within the first six moves the game should be stopped and restarted with correct parameters. After move seven the (wrong) settings are valid for the game. Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game
6. The player with the black stones invites the player with the white stones at the beginning of the game
7. A game is lost by time if a player fails to play 25 moves in the defined byoyomi period (10 minutes)

3.5 implies that the time settings stands after 6 moves. (but at least 3 people are involved in it)

The komi settings can be corrected at the end " Wrong komi can be adjusted at the end of the game" but must it been noticed and claimed before the seventh move?

No, the six move limit is specifically mentioned a only applying to colours and time settings.

The sad thing is that (if everything was done according to the rules that Rob van Zeijst should have set the timesettings (rule 3.6) and that both captains are responsible (it is not mentioned anywhere who they are)

Why is that sad?

luckely the appeals commission ( http://pandanet-igs.com/communities/euroteamchamps/13 )

has representatives of both countries (and a Russian) What if only one country was represented?

Normal procedure is for any player with a personal stake in the dispute to be replaced by a reserve member. In this case, I guess they will have to find two reserve members.