In a handicap game I played today, the following position appeared on the board:
$$ $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O X X X X X X O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X O O X O X O X O C . . . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O O O O O X X S . X . . . . | $$ | . . O O O X O . O . O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . X . X X O . O . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X X X X X O O X O . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . X X Q X X O . . | $$ | . . . X X O O O O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
[go]$$ $$ | . . O X . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . X O X X X X X X O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X O O X O X O X O C . . . O . . | $$ | . O O X X O O O O O X X S . X . . . . | $$ | . . O O O X O . O . O X . . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . X . X X O . O . . . X X O . | $$ | . . . X X X X X O O X O . . . X O . . | $$ | . . . . O X O X O X . X X Q X X O . . | $$ | . . . X X O O O O X X . . . X O O . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Notice how is in the perfect position to make the ladder at work! So I get to capture four stones instead of just playing at !
Post some other examples of interesting ladders from your games.
EDIT: Removed "neat" so I don't sound like a little girl.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 6:17 pm
by Shaddy
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Fri Feb 11, 2011 8:59 pm
by Dusk Eagle
This is the best one I can remember actually occurring in a game of mine.
Dusk Eagle - wow, a 1k didn't bother to read that ladder? It's not as if it was a blitz game, and even if he misread at first and thought it was in his favour, did he not stop and read it again after you'd played it out a few stones? (I know I do this when my opponent starts to play out a ladder that I thought was in my favour - and on at least one occasion discovered, in time to avoid disaster, that I had indeed misread the first time.)
One dreads to think what Kageyama would have said...
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 9:10 am
by Shaddy
robinz- misreading ladders is not uncommon (and sometimes when people notice they misread they keep going anyway..). usually I trace my finger over the board to make sure i'm doing it right, even (especially) in tournament games.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 10:51 am
by jdl
robinz wrote:Dusk Eagle - wow, a 1k didn't bother to read that ladder?
Imagine the internal dialog from his opponent. "Wow, I can't believe that this 1k moron didn't bother to read out the ladd... oh."
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:04 am
by Dusk Eagle
Yeah, it's a pretty dumb mistake. Especially considering how is unnecessary. But I guess once he started, he may have been thinking, "if I'm wrong, I've lost anyway, so there's no point in stopping to read it out again."
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:46 am
by xed_over
robinz wrote:Dusk Eagle - wow, a 1k didn't bother to read that ladder?
I'm sure you guys are already familiar with the famous 2003 Lee Sedol game where he played out a ladder he couldn't win.
But the failed ladder forced a capture on the other side of the board to allow him to win the game overall.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 11:50 am
by mw42
Dusk Eagle wrote:Yeah, it's a pretty dumb mistake. Especially considering how is unnecessary. But I guess once he started, he may have been thinking, "if I'm wrong, I've lost anyway, so there's no point in stopping to read it out again."
I get nervous playing out a ladder that I think is in my favor. After every move I always stop and read it out again.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sat Feb 12, 2011 1:57 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Confidence in your reading ! If you can't read, you have nothing! Live and die by it!
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 5:26 am
by Violence
Well, Tygem 3d's can't read ladders either.
Ladder reading. Completely unnecessary.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 2:48 pm
by ethanb
My best ladder recently never actually showed up on the board *as a ladder*, but it let me gain at least 15 points in a tournament game. (I was black with 4 stones... something bad happened in the lower left early on, but what happens now starts to make up for it.)
$$Wc What does black do? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Wc What does black do? $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . 1 . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$B $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O . O X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . O O . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . , . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
$$Wc is the fist hidden behind the ladder breaker silk glove $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O 4 O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 5 O O 8 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . 2 3 . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Wc is the fist hidden behind the ladder breaker silk glove $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O 4 O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 6 5 O O 8 . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X . O . 2 3 . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X 1 . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
$$Wc breaks the ladder again, so white has to spend more moves to capture $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X 3 O . X O . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+
[go]$$Wc breaks the ladder again, so white has to spend more moves to capture $$ +---------------------------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X O O . . . . . . . O X X O . . . . | $$ | . X X O . O . . X . . O O X O . O O . | $$ | . . . X O . . O X . . . . X . X X O . | $$ | . . . X . . . . X . . O . . . . X X . | $$ | . . X . . O . O X . X O . X . X O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X O X . O . O X . O . . | $$ | . . . X . . . . O X X . . O X X X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O X . . O X O X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O X O O O X . | $$ | . . X . . . . . O . X . . . . . 1 . . | $$ | . . X O . . . . . . . X 3 O . X O . . | $$ | . X X O . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . | $$ | O O O X O X . . . . . . . . . 2 O . . | $$ | O X X X . O . . . . . . . . . . 4 . . | $$ | . O X X X X O X . . . . . X . X . . . | $$ | . O O O . O O X . . X . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:29 pm
by Fedya
Shaddy wrote:
I would have posted this, which is much more frightening.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Sun Feb 13, 2011 7:58 pm
by mw42
Fedya wrote:
Shaddy wrote:
I would have posted this, which is much more frightening.
You have posted it.
Re: Post your ladders!
Posted: Tue Feb 15, 2011 7:28 am
by gaius
Shaddy wrote:robinz- misreading ladders is not uncommon (and sometimes when people notice they misread they keep going anyway..). usually I trace my finger over the board to make sure i'm doing it right, even (especially) in tournament games.
Seriously?! And you're KGS 3 dan? I have never seen anybody do this in tournaments, not even double-digit kyu players! If my opponent would try that, it would really annoy me, and I'd probably tell him to stop (calling the referee might not even be unreasonable, because you're obstructing your opponent's thought process pretty badly). Now I don't know you personally, but I'd strongly advise you to stop this if you ever want your dan grade to be taken seriously .
By the way, I think anyone who is not sure whether they've read out a ladder correctly should just re-read and re-read until they are sure (even kyu players). They give you plenty of time in tournaments, and if you don't learn to read you will not get stronger. Finger tracing is for dweebs .
is in the perfect position to make the ladder at 
work! So I get to capture four stones instead of just playing at 
!
is unnecessary. But I guess once he started, he may have been thinking, "if I'm wrong, I've lost anyway, so there's no point in stopping to read it out again."
! If you can't read, you have nothing! Live and die by it!
is the fist hidden behind the ladder breaker silk glove
breaks the ladder again, so white has to spend more moves to capture
.
.