Page 1 of 1
What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 1:25 pm
by CarlJung
This was played on wbaduk. I'm black. I usually go for influence, but this one was different. My opponent didn't want to give me any influence and the territory he offered in return seemed perfectly reasonable. Turns out I was wrong
The time settings were 5 min main time and 30s byo-yomi. I think I lost the game within the 100 or so first moves, and that's what bothers me. They seem quite good to me

More time wouldn't have changed it. I probably have a blind spot somewhere.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[6.50]
PW[dom98]PB[averagejoe]WR[5k]BR[5k]DT[2010-04-28]PC[www.cyberoro.com]C[I'm playing black.]RE[W+43.50]
;B[pd]
;W[dp]
;B[dd]
;W[pp]
;B[cn]
;W[cf]
;B[ch]
;W[ef]
;B[fd]
;W[gf]
;B[hd]
;W[cl]
;B[cq]
;W[cp]
;B[dq]
;W[eq]
;B[bp]
;W[bo]
;B[bq]
;W[co]
;B[fq]
;W[ep]
;B[er]
;W[fp]
;B[gq]
;W[cj]
;B[eh]
;W[gh]
;B[ej]C[I suppose this is questionable but I don't find a better move. Perhaps I could have avoided the situation?]
;W[di]
;B[ei]
;W[dh]
;B[dg]
;W[cg]
;B[eg]
;W[df]
;B[dj]
;W[ci]
;B[em]C[I was happy with neutralizing his influence like this and thought I could still pull something off at the left side.]
;W[bn]
;B[cm]
;W[bm]
;B[dl]C[I thought this sequence was good for B, but the result speaks otherwise.]
;W[ck]
;B[nq]
;W[lq]
;B[qq]
;W[qp]
;B[pq]
;W[np]
;B[mq]C[Bruce Wilcox says: Don't bump heads.
But is it really that bad in this situation? Something better?]
;W[mp]
;B[lr]
;W[kq]
;B[rp]
;W[ro]
;B[rq]
;W[qn]
;B[qj]
;W[nd]
;B[pf]
;W[jd]
;B[ie]
;W[je]
;B[if]
;W[qh]
;B[ph]
;W[pi]
;B[qg]
;W[oh]
;B[pg]
;W[qi]
;B[oc]
;W[nc]
;B[ml]C[trying to neutralize his influense. I know I will have to live with the groups on both left and right side.]
;W[ok]
;B[ol]
;W[pl]
;B[om]
;W[pm]
;B[nk]
;W[oj]
;B[mi]C[I'm happy. ]
;W[gj]
;B[gm]
;W[dn]
;B[fk]C[better to live small than die big

]
;W[dm]
;B[dk]
;W[hg]
;B[jl]
;W[il]
;B[im]
;W[jm]
;B[hm]
;W[kl]
;B[jk]
;W[kk]
;B[ik]
;W[kj]
;B[mg]
;W[ng]
;B[kh]
;W[gk]
;B[gl]
;W[km]
;B[jg]
;W[mf]
;B[li]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[ob]
;B[pb]
;W[pc]
;B[rc]
;W[qb]
;B[rb]
;W[od]
;B[cd]C[My gut feeling (and in retrospect, score est) tells me I'm ahead but not much. I have four corners and a lot of stones in the middle that all live. I'm a happy camper. ]
;W[kr]
;B[ic]
;W[jc]
;B[be]
;W[bf]
;B[ii]
;W[fg]
;B[mr]
;W[re]
;B[rf]
;W[ra]
;B[se]
;W[gc]C[didn't see this one coming.]
;B[gd]
;W[ib]
;B[hb]
;W[hc]
;B[fc]
;W[gb]
;B[fb]
;W[id]
;B[he]
;W[jo]C[Now score est tells me I'm behind 26pts. From here on he just eats away at my territory. Plus I made some serious errors that could have easily been avoided, but nothing that could change the outcome. So I assume there is something seriously wrong with my judgment that lead up to this position. ]
;B[iq]
;W[mn]
;B[op]
;W[oo]
;B[oq]
;W[on]
;B[kf]
;W[ke]
;B[lf]
;W[le]
;B[rh]
;W[ri]
;B[sg]
;W[jf]
;B[ig]
;W[lg]
;B[kg]
;W[mh]
;B[ni]
;W[oi]
;B[si]
;W[rj]
;B[sj]
;W[sk]
;B[sh]
;W[rk]
;B[ir]
;W[oe]
;B[pe]
;W[ji]
;B[hk]
;W[mm]
;B[ho]
;W[ih]
;B[hi]
;W[gi]
;B[hh]
;W[jh]
;B[jp]
;W[kp]
;B[io]
;W[jn]
;B[en]
;W[fn]
;B[fo]
;W[go]
;B[eo]
;W[gp]
;B[gn]
;W[hp]
;B[ip]
;W[hq]
;B[hr]
;W[ap]
;B[aq]
;W[fr]
;B[gr]
;W[dr]
;B[fs]
;W[cr]
;B[ds]
;W[br]
;B[cs]
;W[ar]
;B[ll]
;W[lk]
;B[mk]
;W[nj]
;B[mj]
;W[of]
;B[af]
;W[ag]
;B[ae]
;W[bh]
;B[rd]
;W[fa]
;B[ea]
;W[ga]
;B[db]
;W[lh]
;B[ki]
;W[jj]
;B[hl]
;W[nm]
;B[nh]
;W[mg]
;B[lm]
;W[ln]
;B[nl]
;W[ee]
;B[fe]
;W[ff]
;B[ed]
;W[ce]
;B[bd]
;W[bs]
;B[es]
;W[sp]
;B[sq]
;W[so]
;B[fj]
;W[fh]
;B[js]
;W[ks]
;B[ls]
;W[jr]
;B[is]
;W[lo]
;B[in]
;W[hf]
;B[sb]
;W[og]
;B[sa]
;W[qa])
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:10 pm
by fwiffo
I don't have a lot to say because I'm about the same strength as you, but I like to punish

this way:
$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 O O 4 . . . . .
$$ | . 2 X X 1 5 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 O O 4 . . . . .
$$ | . 2 X X 1 5 . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------[/go]
You either get to eat three stones or capture

if white blocks. White can patch up by protecting the cut...
$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 O O 3 . . . . .
$$ | . 2 X X 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . X . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . 4 O O 3 . . . . .
$$ | . 2 X X 1 . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . .
$$ --------------------[/go]
But I think this is pretty good for black.
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 2:41 pm
by daniel_the_smith
I think 27 is wrong. It looks like you made an invasion that's way too deep.
For 13 consider c10 if you want to save that stone. A poor base is better than no base. Your approach move can hop in the corner or run, so the side stone is the weaker one.
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 7:02 pm
by Bill Spight
A few comments:
(;FF[4]GM[1]SZ[19]AP[GOWrite:2.2.21]ST[2]CA[UTF-8]PB[averagejoe]PW[dom98]FG[259:]PM[0]KM[6.5]GN[ ]PC[www.cyberoro.com]BR[5k]C[I'm playing black.]WR[5k]RU[Japanese]RE[W 43.50]DT[2010-04-28]
;B[pd]
;W[dp]
;B[dd]
;W[pp]
;B[cn]
;W[cf]
;B[ch]
;W[ef]
;B[fd]
;W[gf]
;B[hd]
;W[cl]
(
;C[*** Not such a great idea, IMO. You are giving up thickness and putting a lot of strain on your single stone. Also, you are not jumping through a small opening, something that is very strong. See variation.]B[cq]
;W[cp]
;B[dq]
;C[*** Not good.]W[eq]
(
;C[*** See variation.]B[bp]
;W[bo]
;B[bq]
;W[co]
;B[fq]
;W[ep]
;C[*** Slightly better than joseki.]B[er]
;W[fp]
;B[gq]
;W[cj]
;C[*** Jowa says, Don't run. White should gain a lot from attacking these stones.]B[eh]
;W[gh]
;C[I suppose this is questionable but I don't find a better move. Perhaps I could have avoided the situation?
*** Yes, you could have.]B[ej]
;W[di]
;B[ei]
;W[dh]
;B[dg]
;W[cg]
;C[*** Aji keshi. You might want to play C-15, for example.]B[eg]
;W[df]
;B[dj]
;W[ci]
(
;C[I was happy with neutralizing his influence like this and thought I could still pull something off at the left side.
*** Where are your eyes? Can you spell H-E-A-V-Y? See variation.]B[em]
;W[bn]
;B[cm]
;W[bm]
;C[I thought this sequence was good for B, but the result speaks otherwise.
*** The sequence is good for Black. White is passive and low.]B[dl]
;W[ck]
(
;C[*** But this is very risky. You are saying, my stones on the left are kikashi, and I can throw them away. But that is not true, is it? You must start to make eye shape. See variation.]B[nq]
;W[lq]
(
;C[*** Again, you are weakening your vulnerable stones. See variation.]B[qq]
;W[qp]
;B[pq]
;W[np]
(
;C[Bruce Wilcox says: Don't bump heads. But is it really that bad in this situation? Something better?
*** Yes, it really is that bad. See variation.]B[mq]
;W[mp]
;B[lr]
(
;W[kq]
;B[rp]
;W[ro]
;B[rq]
;W[qn]
(
;C[*** Aside from ignoring your central group, this is too close. See variation.]B[qj]
;W[nd]
;B[pf]
;W[jd]
;B[ie]
;W[je]
;B[if]
;C[*** See what I mean by too close?]W[qh]
;B[ph]
;W[pi]
;C[*** Defeatist. You must cut, come hell or high water. If you go down, go down fighting.]B[qg]
;W[oh]
;B[pg]
;W[qi]
(
;C[*** Invites White to strengthen himself. See variation.]B[oc]
;W[nc]
;C[trying to neutralize his influense. I know I will have to live with the groups on both left and right side.]B[ml]
;W[ok]
;B[ol]
;W[pl]
;B[om]
;W[pm]
;B[nk]
;W[oj]
(
;C[I'm happy.
*** See variation.]B[mi]
;W[gj]
;B[gm]
;W[dn]
(
;C[better to live small than die big
Nope. It is better to live big. See variation.]B[fk]
;W[dm]
;C[*** Small.]B[dk]
;W[hg]
;B[jl]
;W[il]
;B[im]
;W[jm]
(
;B[hm]
;W[kl]
;B[jk]
;W[kk]
;B[ik]
;W[kj]
(
;C[*** See variation.]B[mg]
;W[ng]
;B[kh]
;W[gk]
;B[gl]
;W[km]
(
;B[jg]
;W[mf]
;B[li]
;W[qc]
;B[qd]
;W[ob]
;B[pb]
;W[pc]
(
;C[*** See variation.]B[rc]
;W[qb]
;B[rb]
;W[od]
;C[My gut feeling (and in retrospect, score est) tells me I'm ahead but not much. I have four corners and a lot of stones in the middle that all live. I'm a happy camper. ]B[cd]
;W[kr]
;B[ic]
;W[jc]
;B[be]
;W[bf]
(
;C[*** See variation for local play.]B[ii]
;W[fg]
;B[mr]
;W[re]
;B[rf]
;W[ra]
;B[se]
;C[didn't see this one coming.]W[gc]
;B[gd]
;W[ib]
;B[hb]
;W[hc]
(
;B[fc]
;W[gb]
;B[fb]
;W[id]
(
;C[*** Gives up. See variation.]B[he]
;C[Now score est tells me I'm behind 26pts. From here on he just eats away at my territory. Plus I made some serious errors that could have easily been avoided, but nothing that could change the outcome. So I assume there is something seriously wrong with my judgment that lead up to this position. ]W[jo]
(
;C[*** See variation. End of comments.]B[iq]
;W[mn]
;B[op]
;W[oo]
;B[oq]
;W[on]
;B[kf]
;W[ke]
;B[lf]
;W[le]
;B[rh]
;W[ri]
;B[sg]
;W[jf]
;B[ig]
;W[lg]
;B[kg]
;W[mh]
;B[ni]
;W[oi]
;B[si]
;W[rj]
;B[sj]
;W[sk]
;B[sh]
;W[rk]
;B[ir]
;W[oe]
;B[pe]
;W[ji]
;B[hk]
;W[mm]
;B[ho]
;W[ih]
;B[hi]
;W[gi]
;B[hh]
;W[jh]
;B[jp]
;W[kp]
;B[io]
;W[jn]
;B[en]
;W[fn]
;B[fo]
;W[go]
;B[eo]
;W[gp]
;B[gn]
;W[hp]
;B[ip]
;W[hq]
;B[hr]
;W[ap]
;B[aq]
;W[fr]
;B[gr]
;W[dr]
;B[fs]
;W[cr]
;B[ds]
;W[br]
;B[cs]
;W[ar]
;B[ll]
;W[lk]
;B[mk]
;W[nj]
;B[mj]
;W[of]
;B[af]
;W[ag]
;B[ae]
;W[bh]
;B[rd]
;W[fa]
;B[ea]
;W[ga]
;B[db]
;W[lh]
;B[ki]
;W[jj]
;B[hl]
;W[nm]
;B[nh]
;W[mg]
;B[lm]
;W[ln]
;B[nl]
;W[ee]
;B[fe]
;W[ff]
;B[ed]
;W[ce]
;B[bd]
;W[bs]
;B[es]
;W[sp]
;B[sq]
;W[so]
;B[fj]
;W[fh]
;B[js]
;W[ks]
;B[ls]
;W[jr]
;B[is]
;W[lo]
;B[in]
;W[hf]
;B[sb]
;W[og]
;B[sa]
;W[qa]
)
(
;B[rh]
;W[ri]
;B[si]
;W[sj]
;B[sh]
;W[rj]
;C[*** Big reverse sente.]B[fa]
)
)
(
;B[rh]
;W[ri]
;B[si]
;W[sj]
;B[sh]
;W[rj]
;C[*** Looking for a place to resign.]B[lo]
;W[ko]
;B[lp]
(
;C[*** Finding it.]W[mn]
)
(
;W[ln]
;B[mo]
;W[mn]
;B[no]
;W[kp]
;C[*** Can White live?]B[op]
)
)
)
(
;B[gb]
;W[id]
;B[fc]
)
)
(
;B[hi]
;W[gi]
;B[ji]
)
)
(
;B[qb]
;W[od]
;C[*** Joseki.]B[rc]
)
)
(
;B[ni]
;W[oi]
;B[lf]
)
)
(
;B[ni]
;W[oi]
;B[mg]
)
)
(
;B[ik]
;W[hl]
;C[*** This sequence make the connection a stronger play]B[hm]
)
)
(
;B[im]
)
)
(
;C[*** Throw away your smaller group.]B[hk]
)
)
(
;C[*** The only hope to salvage anything on the right side.]B[oi]
)
)
(
;C[*** Better spot on the right side. But the center is urgent.]B[qg]
)
)
(
;W[oq]
;B[or]
;W[op]
;B[nr]
)
)
(
;B[op]
;W[oo]
;B[oq]
;W[mp]
;B[hk]
)
)
(
;B[no]
;W[pn]
;C[*** By attacking this stone, you may build a wall that will help your center stones.]B[kp]
)
)
(
;B[hk]
;W[jk]
;B[hm]
;W[ho]
;C[*** Something like this, perhaps.]B[jl]
)
)
(
;B[ck]
(
;W[bk]
;B[dk]
;W[bl]
;B[gk]
)
(
;W[dk]
;B[bk]
;W[bl]
;B[bi]
;W[bh]
;B[bj]
;W[ch]
;B[dl]
;W[ek]
;B[el]
;W[fk]
;B[cm]
)
)
)
(
;B[bq]
(
;W[bp]
;B[ep]
(
;W[fq]
;B[do]
)
(
;W[eo]
;B[fp]
;W[dn]
;B[fq]
)
)
(
;W[ep]
;B[bp]
)
)
)
(
;B[en]
(
;W[fp]
;B[dk]
)
(
;W[di]
;B[fp]
)
)
)
Focus: Don't run. Don't make heavy stones. Avoid single purpose plays.
Edit: Cleaned up SGF file.

Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Wed Apr 28, 2010 11:48 pm
by CarlJung
Thanks all! I'm happy to learn two things that will be immediately applicable in many games to come.
1. A better way to punish the lower left non-joseki.
2. Correct joseki in both upper corners.
The other joseki choices Bill suggest are a little difficult for me to see why they are better but I'll figure it out. If not, I'll just follow Kageyama's advice and just stare at it until it makes sense

I'll make sure to look deep into the other moves as well when I get home (work day is just starting).
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:12 am
by zinger
For me the most glaring issue is 69. Black absolutely must cut.
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 5:21 am
by DrStraw
You seems to make to many moves which are too close to the opponent's thickness and it leaves you will weaknesses that the opponent exploited. You also misplayed several of the joseki.
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 9:54 am
by FrenchDude
Maybe a wider pincer would be better for move 7. That way it can work better as an extension from c6 and still pressure c14.
Re: What happened here? (wbaduk 5k)
Posted: Thu Apr 29, 2010 3:43 pm
by Bill Spight
FrenchDude wrote:Maybe a wider pincer would be better for move 7. That way it can work better as an extension from c6 and still pressure c14.
Interesting idea.

C-10 (3 space pincer cum extension) would be a good point.

(No mirror).