Here is another interesting article from the New York Times that might have some relevance to improving one's go skills. It is about perceptual learning, which involves learning to quickly recognize what sort of problem one is facing. A group of cognitive scientists postulate that by focusing the brain's pattern recognition ability, it is possible to gain a deeper grasp on the underlying principles. Basically one practices quickly matching one of several questions to an answer or visa versa, and apparently with eyebrow raising results.
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:30 pm
by Numsgil
I often study go problems (more or less) like this. I have SmartGo on the iPhone and it isn't too hard to just throw stones around until you get the right answer and then move on to the next question.
It doesn't train reading at all; it's more about identifying shape points and tesujis and the like and just internalizing it all into your gut. I have heard that this is how young inseis study.
Posted: Fri Jun 10, 2011 5:56 pm
by EdLee
Thanks, daal.
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:29 pm
by ethanb
So in other words maybe an interesting thing to do would be to look at unlabeled life and death problems and -- without solving them first -- quickly jot down things like "under the stones" or "nakade" or "seki" or "ko" or "death in the hane." Then go back, solve them, and see if the first instinct is right?
I'm not sure if my process is good - it seems more likely to be a way to evaluate your current experience with those shapes than it is to train yourself to evaluate what to read at a glance. Can anybody find a better?
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:06 am
by SoDesuNe
Hm, what about determine the first move (the vital point in the specific situation) at glance? Hane, Pivot point, cut etc.? If you get really good at this, I assume you can considerably shorten the reading time in a real game.
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:13 am
by Bill Spight
Verrry interesting! Thanks.
Differences are significant, so I thought that comparison problems might be good for perceptual learning. For instance:
Which response?
Black approached the top left corner with . White replied with one of these moves. Quickly guess which one it was.
Often you see next move problems with 5 choices, which are graded from 2 to 10. Perhaps giving only two choices would work better for perceptual learning.
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 12:37 am
by Bill Spight
Let's try a few more.
Black has just invaded. White made one of these replies. Quickly guess which one it was.
[go]$$B Continued $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . X . X . . X . O . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . X , X . . | $$ | . 6 8 O O . . . . . O . O . . . . . . | $$ | . 5 O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . 7 . . . . . . . . . . O . X . . . | $$ | . . 1 X . 3 . 9 . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . , . 2 . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . O . . . O . . | $$ | . . X . . 4 . . . . O O . . . O . . . | $$ | . . X . . . . . X O O X . . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . O X . X . . O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . X . . . X O . . . | $$ | . . X , . . X . . , . . X . X , . . . | $$ | . . . . X . X O O . X X O O X O . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 3:59 am
by Oroth
I found these problems interesting, not least because my first instinct is often wrong. What I often wonder about these choose-the-next-move multiple choice questions is the difference in playability between the answers. Is it like night and day, so the wrong answer is incontrovertably wrong, or is the 'wrong' answer within the realms of playable, so that a strong player might prefer it as a stylistic choice. For things like opening problem books are the answers so clear cut that all pros agree, without fail, on the correct answer?
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 4:55 am
by daniel_the_smith
Interesting problems.
Extra interesting to me because I could see automatically generating similar ones for my website. As a source of wrong moves I could either find a move a pro played in a different game, find a move an amateur played in an amateur game, or I could start (anonymously, of course) recording which incorrect moves my members are making in joseki positions... Hm...
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:06 am
by Bill Spight
Perhaps these are too easy, in the sense that you might do well by asking which one would I play and then picking the other one. Alternatively, you can pick the more aggressive reply.
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:20 am
by Bill Spight
Oroth wrote:I found these problems interesting, not least because my first instinct is often wrong. What I often wonder about these choose-the-next-move multiple choice questions is the difference in playability between the answers. Is it like night and day, so the wrong answer is incontrovertably wrong, or is the 'wrong' answer within the realms of playable, so that a strong player might prefer it as a stylistic choice.
The problems that give 5 choices typically have one incorrect answer that is barely playable, that gets you 2 points, and one that is playable, but (maybe) not as good as the "correct" answer, which gets you 8 points. The authors do not believe that it is merely a question of style.
For things like opening problem books are the answers so clear cut that all pros agree, without fail, on the correct answer?
Pretty much. That does not mean that pros are right. For instance, the Kobayashi Fuseki would have been considered incorrect according to the opening books of the mid-20th century. As would the Chinese Fuseki. OTOH, we have made progress in the opening over time. There are fads, but usually opening ideas are rejected because they prove to be inferior.
BTW, Honinbo Dosaku, the hero of these problems, often played the Mini-Chinese as White in handicap games. Back in the 17th century.
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 7:33 am
by amnal
Bill Spight wrote:Perhaps these are too easy, in the sense that you might do well by asking which one would I play and then picking the other one. Alternatively, you can pick the more aggressive reply.
Well...I got them all right by thinking 'if I were looking at a pro game, where would I expect the pro to play'. Perhaps this tells me something about how to improve my own games
Re: Perceptual learning
Posted: Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:30 am
by Bill Spight
daniel_the_smith wrote:Interesting problems.
Extra interesting to me because I could see automatically generating similar ones for my website. As a source of wrong moves I could either find a move a pro played in a different game, find a move an amateur played in an amateur game, or I could start (anonymously, of course) recording which incorrect moves my members are making in joseki positions... Hm...
Maeda, God of Tsumego, used to have a column in one of the go magazines aimed at kyu players ("Igo Club", I think). In one he criticized the multiple choice problems (5 choices) that the magazine had every month for readers to send in answers and get ranked. (I sent in my answers one month and got rated as a 2 kyu, which is how I was playing, anyway.) He thought that, unless the answers were demonstrably correct, as with the tsumego problems, they were open to question. He mentioned one joseki that had been popular a couple of decades before, that he had always thought was inferior. He had seen pro fashion change so that his choice of plays had become the popular one. He thought that if one of the "incorrect" plays was chosen by at least 25% of the amateur (!) responders, you couldn't really say that it was wrong.
For these problems I looked at Dosaku's games, because I figured that the moves would be close to perfect. I also chose plays where I could see a plausible choice in the vicinity of the pro play that I thought was inferior. Not that a distant play would not fill the bill, but it would raise more questions. Also, I had in mind the perceptual notion of just noticeable differences. Local plays seem to meet that criterion better than distant plays. (Not that there is not a strong perceptual element in tenuki problems, though.)
. White replied with one of these moves. Quickly guess which one it was.
Alternatively, you can pick the more aggressive reply.