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Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=4372

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Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 4:57 pm
by Kirby
Here is a game that I played on KGS:



After move 89, I was totally sure I had lost. I clicked on the resign button. I think I even did click it - does a dialog show up when you do? Anyway, I decided that I'd play on for the heck of it.

I ended up winning by 1.5 points, which was very surprising to me. I guess I should be careful about resigning preemptively.

Any review comments that you guys have are welcome.

This was a fast paced game, by the way. 30 seconds per move.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:10 pm
by Solomon
I have no sympathy for your opponent when he plays moves like F12 (95).

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 5:42 pm
by Dusk Eagle
:b97: is even worse than :b95:, and why would a dan play Black 115?

Anyway, a couple of quick comments for now:

:w44: is aji keshi. Notice that later in the fight (after black exchanges N19-M18) M19 would have been sente for you to connect to your right-side stones.

:w46: is too early - you should play at K15 first, which threatens to escape and improves your eyespace.

:w57: at J18 seems like a seki - B K17 J17 H18 M19, or BK17 J17 M19 H18 gives you at least a seki by playing H19 after he blocks, and introduces far too many cutting points into his shape when you atari at H16.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 6:19 pm
by Bantari
Kirby wrote:Here is a game that I played on KGS:



After move 89, I was totally sure I had lost. I clicked on the resign button. I think I even did click it - does a dialog show up when you do? Anyway, I decided that I'd play on for the heck of it.

I ended up winning by 1.5 points, which was very surprising to me. I guess I should be careful about resigning preemptively.

Any review comments that you guys have are welcome.

This was a fast paced game, by the way. 30 seconds per move.


Well, after the move 89 or so your opponent started playing like a dork. I guess he has seen he was winning so badly he just stopped trying. This happens at the lower levels, but once you get stronger you will make the experience that people are slightly more stable.

But this really does not justify playing on no matter how 'lost' you are. True, every now and then you meet a dork and manage to squeak a win, but most of the time you piss people off and still lose the game. I guess we are back to our previous conversation: you play Go to make wins and gain rating or you play Go to have fun and make friends. Either way is acceptable, of course, so its just a matter of personal philosophy.

If it was me playing you and seen you failing to resign around move 89, and since it is against KGS policy to let me resign myself in that situation, I would have escaped. And made a mental note not to give you any more lessons. ;)

But enough moralizing...
Was an amusing game, thanks for posting it.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 7:38 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Winning a won game is an important skill in Go. Normally the examples are not so extreme, of course. In the end, his opponent failed to earn what should have been a simple win. I don't like to resign until I'm sure I've lost either, in case I can create complications to try to pull back into the game.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 8:02 pm
by hyperpape
I tend to resign when I don't have a target. I'll often some moves play with an uphill battle ("these two stones will kill this dragon that already has an eye" or "three stones on the fourth line make a moyo!") but there are times when there's not a target. Somehow "outplay him by 50 points on the bottom half of the board" does feel the same as an attack or a moyo to work with.

So I'd resign in that position. Not that I judge playing it out.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 9:16 pm
by jts
Sometimes the first 50 moves of the game are all about getting awesome ko threats.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:00 am
by Kirby
Dusk Eagle wrote::w44: is aji keshi. Notice that later in the fight (after black exchanges N19-M18) M19 would have been sente for you to connect to your right-side stones.

Agreed.

Dusk Eagle wrote::w46: is too early - you should play at K15 first, which threatens to escape and improves your eyespace.

I agree with this. Also, on that note, I think that, even at move 56, I should have played J18 instead of J17. If I'm correct, I could have lived this way. I didn't think of this under the time pressure.

Dusk Eagle wrote::w57: at J18 seems like a seki - B K17 J17 H18 M19, or BK17 J17 M19 H18 gives you at least a seki by playing H19 after he blocks, and introduces far too many cutting points into his shape when you atari at H16.

Ah, yes. This is what I just mentioned above, I think (except it's white 56, right? Or maybe white 58 would be alright there, too.).

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 6:01 am
by Kirby
Bantari wrote:...
But this really does not justify playing on no matter how 'lost' you are. ...


I disagree, but I'm sure you're aware of it. From my viewpoint, I am "justified" to play on for as long as I feel I have a chance at winning.

It was my feeling that I had a chance that made me go back on resigning, though I was about to.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 8:26 pm
by CXUD
what was wrong with move 95 or 97?

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 9:37 pm
by EdLee
CXUD wrote:what was wrong with move 95 or 97?
:b95: = pass. :b97: = ~4 points in gote, when there are 20-point moves on the board (say, R3).

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Wed Aug 03, 2011 10:45 pm
by Dusk Eagle
Keep in mind that I'm speaking of a high kyu/low dan game :) . While :b95: may capture those five stones, those stones were already almost completely dead and have no strategic importance whatsoever. They have no strategic importance because Black's groups on both sides are already alive, so even if white were to save them it wouldn't affect black's position in any way, shape, or form. It would actually be a huge mistake for white to try to save those stones right now. Meanwhile, a move to split the bottom is screaming to be played.

The problem with :b97: is a lot more basic: it surrounds only the tiniest of territory. Black should invade white's moyo on the bottom here, not try to slowly surround four points in gote.

Re: Was going to resign, then decided to keep playing...

Posted: Thu Aug 04, 2011 1:41 am
by CXUD
EdLee wrote:
CXUD wrote:what was wrong with move 95 or 97?
:b95: = pass. :b97: = ~4 points in gote, when there are 20-point moves on the board (say, R3).


Dusk Eagle wrote:Keep in mind that I'm speaking of a high kyu/low dan game :) . While :b95: may capture those five stones, those stones were already almost completely dead and have no strategic importance whatsoever. They have no strategic importance because Black's groups on both sides are already alive, so even if white were to save them it wouldn't affect black's position in any way, shape, or form. It would actually be a huge mistake for white to try to save those stones right now. Meanwhile, a move to split the bottom is screaming to be played.

The problem with :b97: is a lot more basic: it surrounds only the tiniest of territory. Black should invade white's moyo on the bottom here, not try to slowly surround four points in gote.


Makes sense, thanks guys.
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