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Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

https://lifein19x19.com/viewtopic.php?t=4546

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Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:07 am
by tezza
Hi,
I’m new to lifein19x19, and this is my first post.

I was wondering if some forum members would be kind enough :) to review the attached game between two DGS 25k-26k.
GoGareth-tezza-669716-20110825.sgf
(2.14 KiB) Downloaded 317 times

Komi for the game was set at 2 points but had it been standard 6.5 points, the final score would be a ½ point difference (in Black's favor).

My thoughts:
1) Black (yes, me) has no idea about joseki. So B's play to moves 13 and 25 is of the "plonk-and-pray" variety.
2) By move 60, it seems White has more territory.
3) In trying to balance out the score, B made a mistake in chasing (to move 90) W’s E10 group (bending to K8), allowing W to build a wall with strong influence :tmbdown: .
4) By move 120, W has three corners, west side, and the centre :shock: !
5) To move 130, B’s poor play has allowed W’s Q7-R7 group to live.
6) Further poor play by B (up to move 140) allows W to connect his Northeast and East groups :o .
7) Up to move 225, B tries to secure his territory but W successfully counterattacks, reducing.
8) W invades the southwest at move 226! :blackeye:
9) Until final move 254, B fights desperately to stave off a collapse of the South-Southwest territory :oops: .

Comments welcome.
Thanks. (Great forum! :bow: )

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 12:16 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Welcome to L19.

Note the tags ( sgf-full ) that allow you to post your game:

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:23 am
by hyperpape
Try Black 87 at H13.

At 117, what if you atari at C14 and then C16?

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 5:10 am
by EdLee
Welcome to the forum. :) A few ideas, mostly shape problems, early in the game:

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:04 am
by tezza
Hi all,

Thanks. You’ve already been of much help:
• Joaz, for putting up a sgf-full.
• hyperpape, for a better move 87 at H13 – a capture threat instead of worrying about the link; and for moves 117-118 atari which I missed (I’m annoyed at myself for that one).
• EdLee, for helping me understand the ‘why’ of the basic shapes in the opening. Your variations are exciting especially 41 (I would have never thought of it!) and 63-65.

Oh, please also review White’s move. I’m inviting him over to read your great comments! :tmbup:

Cheers,
tezza

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 1:44 pm
by EdLee
tezza, a few ideas for W:

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:14 pm
by hyperpape
:w38: is a nice example of a general pattern. It's trying to be an attacking move, but you then have to come back and defend, so the attack doesn't work.

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 4:32 pm
by jts
In response to :b203:, white should pull back; when :w204: blocks instead, black should start the ko. This ko is cheap for black and dangerous for white. (I believe black is risking 2 1/3 points and white is risking 10.) Keep an eye out for this kind of ko situation.

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 6:33 pm
by tezza
Hi EdLee,
Would W E17 still be bad if it was a W stone at star point Q16?

Hi hyperpape,
Could you say W’s move 38 was territory-making instead?

Hi jts,
I was not confident B had enough ko threats compared to W. Am I mistaken?

Thank you all.

Cheers
tezza

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Fri Aug 26, 2011 7:41 pm
by Shaddy
WRT to the ko: 1. White is not risking 10 points, white is risking the entire group, and 2. It doesn't matter, because any threat worth more than 2 points or so is a good threat for you, while White has something like 2 or 3 threats total, because if he loses that ko the group will die.

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 1:10 am
by EdLee
tezza wrote:Would W E17 still be bad if it was a W stone at star point Q16?
Yes. Q16 is too far away. But if W already has a stone around K16 or K17 areas, then W can consider :w6:. :)

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 2:47 am
by tezza
Hi EdLee, thanks.

Hi jts, Shaddy, thanks, I tried out the ko variation. Wow, almost ~20 moves of ko threat and counter-threat but it seems B ends up ahead (fellow beginners, do try it out, quite exciting :clap: ).

Cheers,
tezza

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 10:30 pm
by tezza
Hi all,

I have another question. After W's invasion at C3 (move 226), at what point could B have safely passed?

Assuming standard 6.5 komi, if W passes first, B would have lost by half a point (i.e. B gives up a point by placing a stone in his own territory for no gain) :scratch: .

Cheers,
tezza

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Sat Aug 27, 2011 11:53 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
tezza wrote:... After W's invasion at C3 (move 226), at what point could B have safely passed?...


At 244, white has no possibilities of making two eyes, and all of the surrounding black stones are connected to eyes elsewhere. So black does not need to bother with them, and could pass. But black should not pass, for there is at least one move left. H8 is worth a point.

Re: Please review: a beginner’s game (a close game)

Posted: Sun Aug 28, 2011 4:24 pm
by tezza
Hi Joaz,

Thanks, dragonmaster.

My concern during the game was that if B H8 at move 245, W F5 atari, B F7 defends, W G4 atari, B E4 defends, W J5 threatens cut at K5, B K5, W J4 makes an eye space. I failed to read that W cannot make a second eye.

Cheers,
tezza
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