Here is a life and death problem from a recent game, white to kill (on the right side, obviously):
$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:10 pm
by Koosh
$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X W X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X W X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:22 pm
by daniel_the_smith
Koosh got it, of course.
But I wanted this to be the solution:
$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . W X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . W X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
So I was about to post this modified position:
$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O O . X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . O O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O O . X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . O O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Unfortunately, while Koosh's answer doesn't kill this one, neither does mine, because black has a surprising (to me) response.
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:33 pm
by jts
@daniel
It looks to me like L19 and L17 both work... is there a problem with one of them?
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:34 pm
by tchan001
$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . W X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$c White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . W X . O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:38 pm
by daniel_the_smith
@jts
I was thinking of L19, but yeah, both work. Time for bed!
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 8:52 pm
by Koosh
GrawWw, daniel's answer to the original problem is better than mine
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Wed Sep 07, 2011 9:30 pm
by Solomon
A small tweak:
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O . . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O . . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 10:18 am
by judicata
Koosh was cheating, as he watched the game in which this arose. I played his proposed solution--but I didn't realize there was more than one answer...
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 12:31 pm
by Shaddy
Araban wrote:A small tweak:
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O . . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O . . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 6 O 2 5 X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O 1 7 X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 4 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 6 O 2 5 X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O 1 7 X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 4 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 5:51 pm
by lightvector
Shaddy wrote:
Araban wrote:A small tweak:
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O . . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O . . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 6 O 2 5 X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O 1 7 X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 4 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 6 O 2 5 X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O 1 7 X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 4 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
How does white respond to this?
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 2 O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O 1 . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 2 O . . X O O . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X . X O 1 . X O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O . X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 7:35 pm
by EricBackus
Back to the original problem for a moment...
My first thought was to reduce the eyespace by playing at L17.
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O 3 X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 2 X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 1 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O 3 X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 2 X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 1 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 2 O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 1 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X 2 O . X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 1 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O 2 X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 1 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|
[go]$$Wc White to kill $$ --------------------------------------- $$ |. . . O . . . . . X . O 2 X O O . . .| $$ |. X X X O . O . O X 3 X O X X O O . .| $$ |X . X . X O . . . O 1 X X X X X O . .| $$ |. X . , X X O . . O O X X O O X O . .| $$ |. O X . X X . . . . . X O . O O X O .| $$ |. . O X . X . . . O . O . O . . X . .| $$ |. X . O X O O . . . . . . . . . X . .|[/go]
If reducing the eyespace works, why look for more complicated scenarios?
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Thu Sep 08, 2011 11:20 pm
by judicata
EricBackus wrote:If reducing the eyespace works, why look for more complicated scenarios?
Because more complicated=cooler.
Re: Life & Death from a game
Posted: Fri Sep 09, 2011 9:09 am
by EricBackus
judicata wrote:
EricBackus wrote:If reducing the eyespace works, why look for more complicated scenarios?
