It is currently Sun Dec 08, 2019 10:52 am

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]




Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3
Author Message
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #41 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 7:26 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Guess I'll join team white!
Hi, everyone! :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . W X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White obviously doesn't want to get enclosed.

Also this move has already been discussed openly in the previous comments by much stronger players ;-)


edit: Oops, let's try this diagram again!

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #42 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:15 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4504
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1580
Was liked: 651
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
unkx80 wrote:
How come you guys are discussing moves that haven't been played so openly?


Hem, sorry, you are quite right. For some reason I thought this was a variation that now couldn't be played because it had taken a different path. :oops:

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #43 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 8:15 am 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 4504
Location: Chatteris, UK
Liked others: 1580
Was liked: 651
Rank: Nebulous
GD Posts: 918
KGS: topazg
Still, having said it, I'm on team Black now:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #44 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:12 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1756
Liked others: 356
Was liked: 369
Rank: 4d
I feel that learning from these moves is more important than this actual game.

Plus, if I can bait team black to show more sequences than team white does... :twisted:

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #45 Posted: Thu May 27, 2010 12:25 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 2060
Location: Texas
Liked others: 546
Was liked: 171
Rank: KGS 3k
GD Posts: 264
KGS: Chew
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . W X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I guess I haven't taken the helm in a while. Here goes nothing...

Okay, the two options I see are these:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . . O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . a X b . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both seem to end up very similarly.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X 4 . O X 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . 2 X W . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . 2 O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X 4 1 O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . W X 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


The second way seems to push black slightly less far south, so it seems preferable.

I feel like we're behind. Are we behind? I guess we're beind on the board because we jumped in to reduce/invade their top side, and we still have our bottom framework intact. I really like the idea of taking somewhere around the west star point ASAP, as it's halfway between our thicknesses. But it seems better not to get shut into the northwest first.

_________________
Someday I want to be strong enough to earn KGS[-].

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #46 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:20 am 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 256
Location: Singapore
Liked others: 13
Was liked: 30
Rank: Dan player
Let me resurrect this long forgotten game...

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . B O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I had quite a bit of difficulty deciding whether to atari or not. In the end, I decided to atari.

_________________
My homepages: http://senseis.xmp.net/?Unkx80 and http://yeefan.sg/.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #47 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 11:57 am 
Dies with sente

Posts: 81
Liked others: 14
Was liked: 1
Rank: 1d
GD Posts: 95
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . W O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Hi whites!

No brainer

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #48 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 1:57 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 399
Location: Shanghai, China
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 35
Rank: EGF 2d KGS 3d
GD Posts: 353
KGS: freegame
I guess I'll play one for black.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . W O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X B . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


preventing the double atari seems like the only option for black.
I selected the solid connection because this avoids bad aji.
Q10 is also in a nice spot giving black quite some solid points on the right.

I did not play at a in the diagram below because playing at a leaves cutting-points
that for example make the marked white (endgame) move dangerous for black.
and it would also leaves some nasty aji behind.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O @ . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . W O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X . X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . a . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


next white needs to capture the cutting stone an N15 to avoid giving black huge outside thickness and getting sealed in.
so black gets to keep sente as well, which is nice.

_________________
Laurens
Go school: freegame's Teaching School
Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #49 Posted: Mon Jun 07, 2010 4:32 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 43
Liked others: 21
Was liked: 6
Rank: KGS 5 kyu
Jumping in on Team White..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X W X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I see no alternative to this; we can't allow ourselves to be cut off and sealed in.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #50 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 3:29 pm 
Lives in gote
User avatar

Posts: 399
Location: Shanghai, China
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 35
Rank: EGF 2d KGS 3d
GD Posts: 353
KGS: freegame
Lets get this game going again.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X W X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


very hard to decide what to play next. something on the bottom or on the right.
I selected the right because this has more support from other black stones. after
white defends at O3 (which seems like a normal move) Black gets sente again, and can still split the bottom.

_________________
Laurens
Go school: freegame's Teaching School
Author of: The Next Move a book for 15-3kyu players.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #51 Posted: Fri Jun 11, 2010 4:22 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 161
Location: Germany
Liked others: 5
Was liked: 2
Rank: KGS 3k
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . W . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


A pincer is not an option, so I considered the low extension, the high extension and the large low extension. The large low extension is too loose and does not work best with the left side!

For the high extension I was afraid that black might play :b2: which takes away the big side that we have.
Although if black doesn't play there, 'a' would be the perfect spot for white.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . 1 . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . a 2 . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This leaves us with the low extension. If black plays :b2: we can either ignore it or play :w3: to cause complications. If he plays elsewhere :w2: is a big corner for us which also aims at :w3: too.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #52 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 12:58 pm 
Lives with ko
User avatar

Posts: 227
Location: Osnabrück, Germany
Liked others: 28
Was liked: 24
Rank: EGF 1d WBaduk 4d
Hmmmm I guess team black need reinforcements~ I'm in ;)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think Black should play like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . 1 O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . 2 . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #53 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 7:24 pm 
Gosei
User avatar

Posts: 1756
Liked others: 356
Was liked: 369
Rank: 4d
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . W O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Zwergesel: I think our last move should have been high. Yes, black could come in, but that is only to our advantage when we have those three stones on the left. This is still fine though.

Anyway, this move keeps his two groups separated, and leaves us with access to the center.

_________________
We don't know who we are; we don't know where we are.
Each of us woke up one moment and here we were in the darkness.
We're nameless things with no memory; no knowledge of what went before,
No understanding of what is now, no knowledge of what will be.

Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #54 Posted: Mon Jun 21, 2010 9:49 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 5305
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 967
Was liked: 1343
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

There is a proverb somethng like "A move on the border of two moyos counts double"
We have a big territory building up on the right side, white has one starting on the bottom. Playing at the border between them accomplishes two things: it surrounds our territory, and it pushes down / invades theirs. One is defensive, one is offensive, thus it is said to be worth double.

Compare the above position with the one below.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . . W . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


My estimate is that the net difference between the two positions is something around 40 points.

BTW, it is sente. It threatens this reduction:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . B . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . 1 . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by 3 people: Jonas, Marcus, tezza
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #55 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 3:35 pm 
Tengen
User avatar

Posts: 5305
Location: Banbeck Vale
Liked others: 967
Was liked: 1343
Rank: 1D AGA
GD Posts: 1512
Kaya handle: Test
Warning to white:

Your clock has been running for over nine years. You are on the verge - relatively speaking - of losing one of your 10-year byo-yomi periods.


This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by 2 people: Bill Spight, Bonobo
Top
 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: Forum Wide Malkovich Game: Black vs. White
Post #56 Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2019 10:59 pm 
Honinbo

Posts: 8744
Liked others: 1492
Was liked: 1487
KGS: Kirby
Tygem: 커비라고해
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc Prisoners - B:0 W:0
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . X X O . O . O X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . X O O . O O X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . X O X O X . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . O O X X . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O . O . . . . . . . . X . W X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . O . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

_________________
it's be happy, not achieve happiness

Top
 Profile  
 
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Post new topic Reply to topic  [ 56 posts ]  Go to page Previous  1, 2, 3

All times are UTC - 8 hours [ DST ]


Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 1 guest


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum
You cannot post attachments in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
Powered by phpBB © 2000, 2002, 2005, 2007 phpBB Group