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Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:46 am
by lindentree
So I wound up with this corner position as white, and I was wondering if the territory was enough to equal Black's influence. (Black also got sente) I botched a lot of the moves leading up to this, but during the game, I figured I might still be okay, even though normally I'd take influence.
$$W Starting position.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Starting position.
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X O . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O X . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O O X X . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O , X O X . O , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O O . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
[Chew edit]Added a missing star point. Sorry, it was bothering me.[/edit]
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:57 am
by p2501
Where did black play next? My kyuish sense tells me black got better off, I would probably complete the classic chinese opening.
edit: typo
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 6:59 am
by lindentree
I think your idea would've been good, but he approached my other corner.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:18 am
by Chew Terr
You're stronger than me, but I would be fine with this as white. Black has some interesting aji that you have to watch, but nothing that looks unmanageable. And your outside fourth-line stone is in a great position to help you limit things. Seems playable by both sides, really.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:22 am
by lindentree
Yeah, I thought it was playable at the time, but wanted some outside feedback. Plus, I did win, so there is that.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:39 am
by Magicwand
i will have to say black is better.
edit:
i will be more clear on my stand.
i will take black over white 100% if i had a choice.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 7:50 am
by tetron
My first instinct was easily But sente might be worth a lot there certainly seems a lot of play left in the game. What concerns me though, is that the corner doesn't seem as secure as I would like and I think black can exploit the attack at H3 and extend the right hand corner before attacking at the top of the board.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:02 am
by daniel_the_smith
I could easily lose this game with either color.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:35 am
by ez4u
I think I would prefer to take White from here. I am interested though, how did Black approach the upper left corner?
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:36 am
by lindentree
One space high approach.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:41 am
by ez4u
Then I would definitely prefer White. I think Black should approach from the right rather than straight on. Black is too thick at the bottom to play a normal approach move profitably, IMHO.
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 8:46 am
by lindentree
Well...actually, I did give him the corner....it seemed like a good idea at the time!
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:02 am
by ez4u
How did the game continue?
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 9:04 am
by lindentree
http://files.gokgs.com/games/2011/11/2/lindentree-go324jp.sgf
Re: Influence vs territory question
Posted: Wed Nov 02, 2011 11:43 am
by Dusk Eagle
I personally prefer white, thanks to the J4 stone and especially due to the white stone in the upper-left corner. If black had that corner I would easily prefer black.