Beginner needing some direction:

[Dr Burns]

I've just started to really get into go and am trying to improve... unsuccessfully it seems.

Reading: "Go! More Than a Game" and the first "So You Want to Play Go? Level 1."

Play: Right now my only "live" opponent is someone I've taught.
The most experience I get is on KGS. Unfortunately online Go and I don't seem to get along. I get very anxious during online play for some reason. Plus it seems I get people who are either drastically worse that are way above my level. I just don't feel like I'm learning anything, other than that I'm horrible at the game.

Anyone have any suggestions to help my sad sad Go?

Thanks and God bless,
Adam

[tezza]

Hi Adam,

One idea may be play online games on both "live game" servers (e.g. KGS) and "turn-based" servers (e.g. Dragon Go Server (DGS), Online Go Server (OGS)).

A turn-based server (TBS) only requires us to make a move every few days. The advantages of TBS games is that (i) lack of the time pressure we beginners feel of making moves quickly (actually, this pressure is more of our own making on “live games”), and (ii) we quickly come across many different playing styles almost simultaneously (on “live games”, it is sequential).

The disadvantages of TBS are several: (i) games may progress very slowly (3-5 months in some cases) , (ii) we may be caught in ‘analysis paralysis’ – trying to think so much that it paralyses decision making ; and (iii) if we have many games going at one time, one bad day could mean making bad moves across many games (a point daniel_the_smith made to me). TBS players tend to have many games going at once to overcome disadvantage (i).

Hope this helps.

Cheers
tezza

[Dr Burns]

Tezza,

Thanks for the input. I might check out a TBS. I don't get bothered much playing face-to-face, but something about KGS makes me bonkers. It doesn't matter if I'm crushing some poor soul or being ground into ity-bity-tiny-dust myself.


God bless,
Adam

[hyperpape]

You could do worse than playing bots, especially on 9x9.

[jts]

They say not to worry at all about whether you're improving until you've lost 100 games.

I think feeling like you're out-matched/under-matched is common among beginners. Don't worry too much about it.

If you still want to improve faster anyway, some ideas:

(i) Play more
(ii) Do life and death problems (for example, search for "Beginner Exercises" in Sensei's Library)
(iii) You can get your game reviewed, and other players will help point out where you can improve. You can ask for a review in several of the rooms in KGS, or you can post a game in the "game analysis" forum here. (Ideally you want to post a game that you put a lot of effort into, that you lost, and that left you unsure why you lost.)
(iv) You can also ask for teaching games. For example, in the Beginner Room on KGS; if you ask in the L19 room, chances are good that someone will help you, too.

[Joaz Banbeck]

...I just don't feel like I'm learning anything, other than that I'm horrible at the game...

This is normal.

We all went through it. Go has the worst learning curve of anything I'v ever attempted to learn. Hang in there. It will get better.

You are learning things. They currently constitute such a small percentage of the things that you need to know so that you don't feel that you are making progress even when you are.

[jts]

Oh, I just checked out your account on KGS. You really want to start playing ranked games. The ranking matches you with opponents at your own level; it would sort of suck to be playing 14k in one game and 3k in the next, if you're looking for competitive games, but there's no way to avoid that without a rank.

And also, it's really easy to get ranked games on KGS; just turn on "automatch". If you have no rank and want to play free games, it's harder.

[xed_over]

it can be really hard to get evenly matched games between beginners, because many are either learning faster than their rating can keep up, or they are temporarily stuck while others are zooming all around them.

try to get some teaching games in, where someone can help point out one or two things for your to improve on or change during a review -- and even when you are teaching other beginners, it can help reinforce what you already know and often help you learn a few new things yourself.

if you don't mind losing all the time, then just keep playing stronger players and you'll improve even though you may lose all your games.

[tezza]

Hi Joaz,

Go has the worst learning curve of anything I'v ever attempted to learn.

Thanks, I thought it just me .

Hi xed_over,

… beginners, because many are either learning faster than their rating can keep up, or they are temporarily stuck while others are zooming all around them..

I really feel like the latter (I console myself that it is "temporary" ).

Cheers
tezza

[Dr Burns]

To all,

Thanks for the responses. It sounds like for right now I need to paint on a smile, play some more games and take my lumps. Maybe I'll get used to playing on KGS. For now it's just unpleasant, oh well.


God bless,
Adam

[emeraldemon]

Also, are you aware of the KGS room for this forum? Rooms at the top -> Room List -> Clubs -> Lifein19x19.com. I'm guessing many people in that room would be willing to play a friendly game with you and offer some advice. If you see me on (greendemon) message me and I'll play

(Also if you take up DGS pm me there and we'll set up a teaching game)

[xed_over]

Maybe I'll get used to playing on KGS. For now it's just unpleasant, oh well.

it doesn't really have to be so unpleasant.

its all about trying to solve a puzzle, and trying to correct your mistakes of the past

try to focus on playing the board, not the person (irregardless of their rank). that may help you enjoy the game more, even against unevenly matched opponents.

[ACGalaga]

Hey Adam, nice to meet you!

I've been enjoying DGS a lot just because I don't have the time to play live. Playing turned based also allows me to continue thinking about strategy that can be applied in live games when I have the chance to play then.

However~

(iii) if we have many games going at one time, one bad day could mean making bad moves across many games :shock:

Oh man... this happens to me often (^_^;) It's even worse when I decide to make moves when drunk. I'll be at a party someplace, notice my phone and play some moves on a few games. Next morning, "What the?! ...awe man, when did I do that?!"

[tezza]

Hi,

It's even worse when I decide to make moves when drunk.

I play many such moves when I'm sleep-deprived. Recently an opponent, after I made two such moves, added salt to the wound by saying "your last moves were weak" .

Cheers
tezza

[Dr Burns]

Guys,

Thanks. I think I'll get DGS going today to give it a shot. I can understand a bit about being careful when you play. My bicycle nearly wrecked on the way back home last night, which left me with a nice adrenaline dump. Adrenaline and Go really don't mix well. Maybe if the stone's were really big and there was a baby stuck underneath one; then it'd help. But that wasn't the case...

Does anyone have any advice on contact players. I played a guy that after the first 8/10 moves felt the need to touch every single stone I played. The game was annoying and deeply unpleasant. Go is likened to a conversation at times. It was reminiscent of a conversation with a petulant child that responds nuh-uh to everything you say. I hate to ask, but is there some polite way to end such games. I want to get better at Go, but its also how I spend my relaxing time. I'd like it to be enjoyable.

Also, there have been a couple good matches on KGS. I still tend to be anxious when I play on the computer, i don't know why. I've thought about maybe playing games out on a real board simultaneously. Maybe that'd help? Thanks for all the advice guys.

One more question! I was reading last night and the author was talking aboug "Double Sente" it sounds good to me, but I don't know where to go to get some, lol. Can anyone explain it a bit. (I do understand sente/gote/reverse sente, at least academically)

God bless,
Adam