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19k vs 19k Get ready for some Excitement!
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:24 am
by Dr Burns
Here it is, try not to laugh too hard (At me that is.)
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1308
Thanks and God bless,
Adam
Re: 19k vs 19k Get ready for some Excitement!
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 10:38 am
by amnal
Just a few comments on the first few moves, on some general mistakes during them.
7: Usually it is not so great to do the 3-3 invasion so soon, because white will have the whole game to use the big wall he gets, so the wall is usually better than the territory that you get in return.
15: Very bad shape. IF you feel you need to protect yourself here, always look at N2 first - if white plays M2, you get O2 anyway to save your stone, but white has a cutting point at M3. In the game, white can play N2 himself and have no cutting point there.
19: Same as before applies, but again white does not make the wall so it turns out okay.
25: White has two cutting points in the top right, but he can fix them both if you give him another move. If white plays Q15 now, for instance, your corner is sealed in and the Q13 stone is lonely in white's strong area. Instead, think about playing Q15 or P16 yourself. If you look at the variations, you'll see white can't stop you capturing at least one stone and breaking further into the middle.
Re: 19k vs 19k Get ready for some Excitement!
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:08 am
by Joaz Banbeck
13: A good rule of thumb to keep in mind: try to connect your stones and disconnect his. P4 separates his.
Also, he should be trying to keep you in the corner. When you invade at the 3-3 point, you get the corner territory. He should be able to get compensation for that by trapping you in the corner and building a wall to use for influence.
You have gotten your territory, but if you push through at P4, he won't get the influence that he ought to be able to get.
15: As Amnal says, the hane gets you more room. S4 is a useful hane too.
But this is only a good move IF you must resort to a hane. Right now, you can walk out into the center. If he tries to stop you, some white stones die. ( You play P5, he blocks with P4, you try again with O4, he blocks with O5, you atari with Q5, he protects, then you kill Q4 and R4. )
The important thing to note here is that you want to get out in the center. Just because you can live small in the corner, does not mean that doing so should be your primary goal. Often you may settle for living small in the corner, but that is only as a last resort when you cannot get out. Here, white has failed to lock you in, and in doing so has made a serious strategic mistake.
25: Again, try to separate your opponenent's stones. When he leaves cutting points like O15 and P14, you can cut him. Maybe you kill something, or maybe you just keep him busy making small moves to defend himself.
Re: 19k vs 19k Get ready for some Excitement!
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:09 am
by emeraldemon
Since I posted about it on the other thread, I'll emphasize reading practice:
reading practice
27: what if 27 is at P16?
39: obviously o14 doesn't save the two black stones. Is there any move that does?
47: common second line shape. Verify that s15 is unconditionally dead.
49: can black's three stones in the corner make two eyes?
59: misread
69: note that e18 can be captured by white at any time. It's the same shape as s15 earlier.
74: yup.
85: excellent! did you read it out?
109: A natural idea, but also note that if black has a move to reduce the
white group at G14 to one eye. Can you spot it?
. One option would be to play around J11, sealing white in. White has to defend to live, giving you sente to continue the attack.
110: seems a misplay by white, you played well to exploit the cut.
125: Just descend to E8. That single stone doesn't matter at all. You have bigger plans!
127: again, wrong direction.
129: this painful shape is a result of the wrong plays earlier.
141: this is a very complicated fight, reading it all out is above my ability. But a few things to think about:
1) Can I win even if white lives? Maybe it's enough to seal white in.
2) C5 is very big for white, threatening your corner stones.
3) j3 is big also, preventing white from getting a base.
Re: 19k vs 19k Get ready for some Excitement!
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:16 am
by Joaz Banbeck
Move 41 is what is known as making an 'empty triangle'. Empty triangles are generally bad.
How many liberties did you have before move 21? ( ans = 2 ) How many liberties do you have after you made it? ( ans = 2 ) So what is your net gain here? You expend a move, you invest a stone that may die, and what do you get for it?
Re: 19k vs 19k Get ready for some Excitement!
Posted: Sat Nov 05, 2011 11:56 am
by BobC
just some rude comments...
(;CA[utf-8]RU[Japanese]GM[1]FF[4]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: hi
Antares93 [19k\]\: hi gl
]
AP[CGoban:3]SZ[19]ST[2]DT[2011-11-05]PC[The KGS Go Server at http\://www.gokgs.com/]
PB[DrBurns]BR[19k]PW[Antares93]WR[19k]KM[6.5]RE[W+40.50]MULTIGOGM[0]
;B[dq];W[pp];B[dc];W[pd];B[dj];W[pj];B[qq]C[Too early for 3,3. he could build a wall along pqr 4 and this thickness would play off his q10 stone. ..
]
;W[pm];B[pq];W[qp];B[oq];W[mp];B[nq];W[mq];B[nr];W[rq];B[rr]C[Interesting... ];W[sp]
C[White has now got stones looking up the right side and along the bottom. If your q3 group lives at best you've made 5 points.
very conservatively He's got 20 made points plus a lot of influence. I think he won this exchange..]
;B[qc]C[It might be an idea to approach the 4,4 points at 6,4. for your next few games. It will get you out more...]
;W[ld];B[qd];W[qe];B[pc];W[oc]C[his shape gives you opportunities for attack..q15.. or p16 might be used to cut him here.]
;B[pg]C[I'm not sure about this. If he goes p15 then his shape is strong and 25 is lost. He can undercut your base and force you run and use your running to build territory along the top.
]
;W[pf];B[oe];W[od]
(;B[of];W[og];B[qf];W[pe];B[oh];W[ng];B[pi]C[Although the q12 group is gatheringt momentum.. white has a lot of thckness looking along the top right.. ]
;W[ph]C[Interesting... less suicidal is r13...];B[qh];W[rf];B[qg];W[nh];B[nf]C[empty triangles...\:(]
;W[mf];B[qj];W[oi];B[ph];W[nj];B[re]C[curious.. that allows him to split your groups.. look out for this second row cut.. it's very common]
;W[rd];B[rc];W[se];B[ok];W[pk];B[pl];W[ol];B[qk];W[ql];B[mi];W[lj]C[black still has to work hard to live here. but 58 allows the cut..]
;B[oj];W[nk]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: rofk'
"k"... kamikazi??
];B[kf]C[Play away from thickness... white has a load on the right..I'm not certain what the aim of l14 is.
Also..... from here white going to t11 kills the black r15]
;W[id]C[White extending from a strong group and worrying the two lost black stones..
62 does two things.. makes territory and attacks...]
;B[if];W[ed]C[choice for black are stark..
Simple d16 consolidates upper white territory and threten j14.
E17marginally better for black..
G16 plays off lost j14 -- could be interesting.. ]
;B[dd];W[ec];B[eb];W[fb];B[gd];W[ge];B[gc];W[hb]C[Not sure blacks going anwhere anyway..]
;B[gb];W[db];B[cb];W[ea];B[cc];W[fe];B[he];W[hd];B[hc]C[See variation for white..]
(;W[ib];B[ic];W[jc];B[jd]C[oops...];W[hg];B[gf];W[hf];B[ie];W[fg];B[kc];W[kd];B[jb]
C[interesting by white];W[jg];B[ig]
(;W[gg];B[ef];W[ff]C[good ..start to build on left..];B[ee]C[you had one stone with three liberties..now you have two stones with three liberties.. \:(]
;W[fd];B[jp]C[Hard to tell what is bigger... c5 d5 for black might prevent any fight for the last corner but you do have the tsumani of thickness baring down on you]
;W[kp]C[that might help black...];B[jo];W[ko];B[jn];W[gm];B[gk]C[Trying to catch g7 seems a bit high risk.. he can run to the center.. and take a shot at d3
I might hane at l6 and worry him a little]
;W[il];B[jl]C[not sure this stops him running..];W[ij];B[ik];W[jk];B[hk];W[jm];B[im]
;W[kl];B[hl]C[possibly white might have done more.. he's secured his terriory but given you a load of thickness looking toward your corner.]
;W[fk]
(;B[jl]C[not sure what this wins.. you might be better soplitting his stones with f8]
;W[hm];B[km];W[kj];B[fl];W[fi];B[fj];W[ek]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: Oo
];B[ej];W[el]
;B[gl];W[fm];B[em];W[dn];B[dl];W[en];B[dm];W[dp];B[cp];W[eq];B[dr];W[hp];B[ho];W[go]
;B[ip];W[hn];B[in]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: wait 5 minits pls =)
DrBurns [19k\]\: I'll be afk a bit then
Antares93 [19k\]\: ok im ack =)
]
;W[iq]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: back*
DrBurns [19k\]\: why do you need an undo?
DrBurns [19k\]\: also, I'm back
Antares93 [19k\]\: ok
Antares93 [19k\]\: äh
Antares93 [19k\]\: becose its stiupid
DrBurns [19k\]\: ah?
DrBurns [19k\]\: well, I hate to say it but that's too bad
DrBurns [19k\]\: I made about 10 of those, the rule I play by is if you make a bad move, move on.
DrBurns [19k\]\: if you had a window issue where you didnt mean to click in that's cool by me
DrBurns [19k\]\: anyhow, hope not to sound like a jerk, but I play by the live and learn!
DrBurns [19k\]\: also, you're playing a great game IMHO
]
;B[hq]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: ^^
Antares93 [19k\]\: ok
That right you tell him...]
;W[gp]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: I'm quite enjoying it because its been a real challenge, but more on my level, compared to games against 3ks and stuff I've played Oo
]
;B[jq]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: yes xD thats good for us
DrBurns [19k\]\: indeed
];W[ir]
;B[hr];W[jr];B[kr];W[gj];B[hj];W[gi];B[hi];W[ii];B[io];W[hh];B[dk];W[fn]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: noooo
Antares93 [19k\]\: x)
DrBurns [19k\]\: you missed D9!
DrBurns [19k\]\: *E9
]
;B[ek]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: vital poin
Antares93 [19k\]\: yes but my point was equal worth
I don't think you need the vital point.. you can run to top left or left side C6 is probably better..
]
;W[gq]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: fair
];B[is];W[gr];B[js];W[ep];B[dh];W[ei];B[di];W[dg]
;B[eg];W[eh];B[de];W[cf]C[very curious..a load of thickness and little room for eye shape.]
;B[ce];W[cm];B[cl];W[bm];B[bl];W[am];B[bo];W[co];B[bp]C[white has a fair chance of killing with b2... but only fair.. not certain..]
;W[er];B[br];W[al];B[bk];W[ak];B[ai];W[bj];B[bi];W[ci];B[ch];W[cj];B[aj];W[cg]C[well thats one way...]
;B[bn];W[cn];B[ga];W[lc];B[lb];W[mb];B[kb];W[rh];B[rg];W[sg];B[qi];W[rk];B[ri];W[sh]
;B[lp]C[there it goes..........................];W[lq];B[lo];W[ln];B[kq];W[mo];B[lm]
;W[mm];B[ll];W[kk];B[ih];W[jh];B[jf];W[kg];B[lf];W[lg];B[me];W[ne];B[le];W[md];B[ob]
;W[nb];B[na];W[pb];B[ma];W[oa]C[ut oh...];B[la];W[be]C[just greedy];B[bg];W[ah]
;B[bh];W[bf];B[bd];W[ca];B[ba];W[da];B[fa];W[eb];B[bb];W[op];B[ml];W[nl];B[mk];W[mj]
;B[ji];W[jj];B[mr];W[lr];B[ls];W[sr];B[qr];W[ro];B[fs];W[fr];B[gs];W[es];B[hs];W[ds]
;B[cs];W[cq];B[cr];W[an];B[ao];W[bq];B[aq];W[nn];B[rs];W[kn];B[ke];W[lk];B[jm];W[rm]
;B[ni];W[oj]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: that was the est game in this month \:D
DrBurns [19k\]\: You speak as if the game is over
DrBurns [19k\]\: ...which I'm pretty sure it is \:D
]
;B[ss];W[sq]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: xD
];B[np];W[no]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: I think I'm sitting on a loss, butt I want to play out the top corner, I hope its not too tedious
DrBurns [19k\]\: *but
]
;B[qb]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: xD
Antares93 [19k\]\: ok
];W[ob];B[qa];W[sa];B[sc];W[sd]
C[Antares93 [19k\]\: fuck
Antares93 [19k\]\: xD
Antares93 [19k\]\: damn
DrBurns [19k\]\: if you don't mind please check the language
Antares93 [19k\]\: sry
DrBurns [19k\]\: its ok
Antares93 [19k\]\: anyway I'll conquer the region
DrBurns [19k\]\: I believe it's actualy a semeai, or whatever it is
]
;B[rb];W[sf]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: no its not
DrBurns [19k\]\: its just my big ugly formation! \:D
]
;B[]C[Antares93 [19k\]\: ^^
];W[]TB[cq][ja][aa][ha][ia][ka][ab][hb][ib][ac][bc]
[jc][ad][cd][hd][id][ae][be][je][af][bf][cf][df][ag][cg][dg][ah][ci][bj][cj][ck]
[fk][el][il][ap][bq][iq][ar][ir][jr][or][pr][as][bs][ks][ms][ns][os][ps][qs]TW[nm]
[om][qm][sm][gn][mn][on][pn][qn][rn][sn][oe][eo][fo][lo][oo][po][qo][so][fp][lp]
[rp][fq][pa][qa][ra][do][qb][rb][sb][mc][nc][pc][qc][rc][sc][nd][qd][re][gf][nf]
[of][qf][mg][pg][qg][rg][fh][gh][kh][lh][mh][oh][ph][qh][ji][ki][li][sk][mi][ni]
[pi][qi][ri][si][qj][rj][sj][ok][qk][pl][rl][sl]C[DrBurns [19k\]\: that was ugly
DrBurns [19k\]\: good game though
Antares93 [18k\]\: yes \:D realy goo ^^
Antares93 [18k\]\: good*
DrBurns [20k\]\: I'm going to throw this up in the life in 19x19 forums for review
Antares93 [18k\]\: xD ok
Antares93 [18k\]\: haha you are 20k ;P
DrBurns [20k\]\: its ok, even if I was back at 21 I still went up 9 stone this week
Antares93 [18k\]\: (i safe the game xD)
Antares93 [18k\]\: ^^
])
(;B[fl]))
(;W[ga];B[ha];W[ia];B[ja]))
(;W[ic];B[ib];W[jb];B[ha];W[kd]))
(;B[pe];W[qf]))