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Nice nasty little problem

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Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:28 am
by SoDesuNe
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status of Black's group?
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . O . X O O . . |
$$ . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . O . X , X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
This problems fits in the category, broaden your view for a position and always search one move deeper ; )

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 12:34 am
by tchan001
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status of Black's group?
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . . . . 2 . |
$$ . . . . O . X O O 1 3 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . O . X , X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Black to move and live
Golden chicken standing on one leg

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 1:56 am
by SoDesuNe
You found the starting move but the conclusion is quite wrong - there is a whole lot more in this problem ; )

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 2:05 am
by jts
But...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Dead
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . . 5 7 4 2 . |
$$ . . . . O . X O O 1 3 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X O 8 |
$$ . . . . O . X , X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X O X 6 |
$$ . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
So therefore...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Ko?
$$ ------------------
$$ . . . . . 7 6 5 4 2 . |
$$ . . . . O . X O O 1 3 |
$$ . . . . . . X X X O . |
$$ . . . . O . X , X O . |
$$ . . . . . . X X O X . |
$$ . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ . . . . . O . O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
I assume it must be ko. If W declines to fight the ko, B can make an eye at :w6:

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Tue Nov 15, 2011 8:16 am
by SoDesuNe
Nice jts! : )
Under the Stones is for itself (in my opinion) an often missed Tesuji but to find it and think the group is dead only to realize there's a Ko in the position really makes this problem a nice but nasty little one : D
By the way, the problem is from "The Art of Capturing Stones" and there it is labelled that Black is dead.

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:32 pm
by jts
A similar theme...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ . . O X . . O X X . . |
$$ . O X X O . O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:48 pm
by Redundant
jts wrote:A similar theme...
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ . . O X . . O X X . . |
$$ . O X X O . O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ . 1 O X . . O X X . . |
$$ . O X X O . O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ . 1 . X 2 . O X X . . |
$$ . O X X O 3 O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ . 1 4 . 2 . O X X . . |
$$ . O . . O 3 O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc Status?
$$ ------------------
$$ . 1 4 . 2 5 . X X . . |
$$ . O . b O 3 a . X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . . . O O . . . O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
a and b are miai to live.

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 5:49 pm
by cyclops
nice problem
black can live
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X 1 . O X X . . |
$$ . O X X O . O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . , . O O . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
next atari and under the stones

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Wed Nov 16, 2011 6:43 pm
by Redundant
cyclops wrote:nice problem
black can live
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . . O X 1 . O X X . . |
$$ . O X X O . O O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . , . O O . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
next atari and under the stones
There is no under the stones in your attempt here.

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 1:02 am
by SoDesuNe
Beautiful problem! Thanks, jts!

I'm with Redundant on this one =)

Re: Nice nasty little problem

Posted: Thu Nov 17, 2011 6:21 am
by cyclops
SoDesuNe wrote: I'm with Redundant on this one =)
Then you are Redundant as well ;-)


revisited:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ----------------------+
$$ . 1 a X 2 b O X X . . |
$$ . O X B O 3 W O X O . |
$$ . O O O X X X X X O . |
$$ . , . O O . . , O . . |
$$ . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
after 1,2,a,b the two circles are miai: both circles are under the stones, no? But I admit I had it wrong again :oops:
nice problem
edit: added the quote for fun
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