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149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 12:24 pm
by Uberdude
Happy New Year!

I'm now ready to play our Malkovich game as promised on my introduction thread. I guessed even so take black. Japanese rules, 6.5 komi, open book/database.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Have fun!

This game should be interesting. My impression is Magicwand likes influence and tends to overplay (particularly when giving handicap), whereas I tend to like territory and honte so we can both be happy :) . However, lately I've been trying out a more flexible style so let's see how this game develops.

As for my first move at 4-4, I still haven't decided if I like 4-4s or 3-4s better so I usually play one of each. Whether I go for a standard opening like Chinese/Kobayashi/Orthodox/Mini-Chinese depends what corners he plays, but based on his previous games I expect he will play 2 4-4s which gives me many choices.

We played a game on OGS, where Magicwand as black made a big moyo and I took territory. I then outplayed him in the fighting and he ended up losing pretty badly. In fact that game is why I joined L19 as I thought it would have made a good malkovich game. You can see the game and my review at http://www.online-go.com/games/board.php?boardID=305481. I wonder if that game will make him play more sensible moves, or will he do his usual style? I hope he does overplay as that should be fun for observers and if/when (hopefully the later!) I punish them I will be winning. I suppose I am black now and it is more natural for black to be the one to choose a moyo game though.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 4:58 pm
by Magicwand
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


gg
i have seen his games and actually played one game and lost.
i think he is very careful on his move selection.
many times i dont agree with his comment.
sometimes he plays toomuch of point oriented game.
i think i am stronger and will win this game easily.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:24 pm
by illluck
I really love Magicwand's confidence :) My impression is that Uberdude is at least slightly stronger in slow games, but I'm not a good judge since I've never won against either :p

In any case, this should be an exciting and didactic game :D

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 5:48 pm
by Psychee
illluck wrote:
I really love Magicwand's confidence :) My impression is that Uberdude is at least slightly stronger in slow games, but I'm not a good judge since I've never won against either :p

In any case, this should be an exciting and didactic game :D


I'll put my bet on Uberdude. :twisted:

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 6:00 pm
by Magicwand
i should have home court advantage on this game.
i am so~~~ into this game..i been staring at this board position with two stone for last 10 min.
i expect nothing less than solid win.

i will overpower him by attacking his weakness of point oriented game.
once i obtain 5 points or more advantage.. i will try to win by not giving him any chance.

i think i will write what is in my mind and there might not be any diag about future expectation of board position.
this game i hope i can share my though process more than explaining my moves.
let me know if you have any question. little interaction with observer is like an oasis for the players who are blindfolded.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 7:14 pm
by Phelan
Psychee wrote:
illluck wrote:
I really love Magicwand's confidence :) My impression is that Uberdude is at least slightly stronger in slow games, but I'm not a good judge since I've never won against either :p

In any case, this should be an exciting and didactic game :D


I'll put my bet on Uberdude. :twisted:


Also leaning towards Uberdude, but Magicwand doesn't seem as much in the overplay mentality as in other games. Should be interesting. :)

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 8:03 pm
by Loons
I'll throw my chips in with Magicwand.

While Uberdude does seem like the more studious player, Magicwand seems very motivated this game and I feel confident he will bring his full power to bear.


Good game guys.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 9:26 pm
by tj86430
My money goes to Uberdude

This should be exciting.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 10:45 pm
by Redundant
The only possible result

Triple ko.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Tue Jan 03, 2012 11:37 pm
by Shaddy
I really want to see this game, since I'm also a very point-oriented player and I'd like to see how my judgment matches up to MW and Uberdude. I won't say who I think will win, because I've only ever played MW.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 1:19 am
by 1986
Man that is a GREAT GAME they played on ogs, i like the comments too.

I like Uberdude he comes across as a sharp tactican like Sakata Eio.

Magicwand is like a great kung fu master
he is a fighter mind body & soul and when he fights its looks like a form of art

I'm a magicwand fan, i like his comments & board vision and his fighting style so i say magicwand, he lost one game and he is back with the eye of the tiger!

where is my popcorn :D

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 12:47 pm
by Uberdude
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Wow, look at all those hidden comments, I wonder what they say! :scratch:

I played at the London Open tournament last week (didn't do very well, played too slowly so kept throwing away games I was leading with mistakes in overtime) and was reviewing one of my games when a friend came over to watch and asked to see the start of the game. We rewound to the position with 4 corners played, but he said 'No, all the way back, the order of the corners is important' which might seem a bit picky but he does have a point. So as an homage to him, here's far too much discussion about corners.

Magicwand's move at d4 is diagonal from mine, so this stops me from playing a diagonal (tasuki) fuseki. There used to by a guy on KGS who had as his game note "no diagonal games" and then if you were black and played diagonal he would resign. Every so often the EGR would discuss his stupidity as he can just played white 2 diagonally to prevent it, but I prefer to think of him as a genius troll ;-).

If I play 4-4 as move 2 for white I will generally play it in the upper left. This is because if black then plays 3-4 in the lower right he could be aiming to set up a Chinese or Kobayashi or Mini-Chinese opening, which white might may wish to avoid (of course there's nothing wrong with letting your opponent make these formations, it's just a personal preference, for me it depends on my mood). One way to thwart black's plans to play these openings is then to not play a 4-4 in the lower left. I expect Magicwand will play 2 4-4s whatever black does so it's not relevant to him, but here is the thinking with diagrams:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Anti-Chinese opening
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
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$$ | . . 4 , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


White 4 doesn't actually stop black from making the Chinese opening (like an approach to :b3: would), but stops it indirectly by making it bad to make it. The theory is that with the shimari of :w6: white limits black's influence over the lower right corner of the board, and the moyo off the 3-4 is the focal point of the Chinese opening. So instead of :b5: at r9 black will probably approach white in the lower left and it's a different game. I got this idea from the excellent [sl=ADictionaryOfModernFusekiTheKoreanStyle]A Dictionary Of Modern Fuseki, The Korean Style[/sl].

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Kobayashi opening
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$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . a 7 . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


This is the Kobayashi opening (there's a variant with 7 at a) and stopping it is as simple as playing :w4: at d3 because then black can't approach from the lower side. You can of course stop it even having played a 4-4 by pincering or approaching black's 3-4 in the lower right.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Mini-chinese opening
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ | . . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . 5 . . . . 7 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Stopping the mini-Chinese is the same idea as the Kobayashi, don't play a 4-4 to avoid giving the f3 approach, or pincer or counter-approach when approached. The classical theory is it's better to play the d3 3-4 point than the c4 one as the later means there are facing 3-4 points, and then whoever has sente (black) to approach gets a nice position.

So by playing his 4-4 in the lower left for move 2 Magicwand can't move it to the 3-4 to prevent me threatening to make these common opening shapes. Anyway, for this game I think I will go for a modern variant of the Chinese, of which more later if Magicwand plays d16 as I expect.

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 3:28 pm
by Magicwand
D16. Star pt

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Wed Jan 04, 2012 6:06 pm
by emeraldemon
Diagram:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 149. Uberdude vs Magicwand

Posted: Sat Jan 07, 2012 9:59 am
by Magicwand
Uberdude :
incase you missed...it is your move
i usually dont take to long to make a move..