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Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

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Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 4:06 am
by AshR
I'm looking for advice on how to ink the lines on the goban I am in the progress of making.

I am happy with the wood I have selected although it was quite expensive. It is beech, 40mm thick and came from a responsibly managed source in Scotland. The tree was over 200 years old and came down in a storm.

Beech wood
Linseed Oil
3 grades of Sandpaper
1.0mm Rotring Radiograph technical pen with black ink
Metal ruler

I have some offcuts for testing the inking of the lines. My initial attempt has not however worked...

I sanded an offcut using progressively finer grades of sandpaper, and then treated the wood with one coat of Linseed oil. After this was dry I then very lightly sanded the treated surface and attempted to apply a line with the pen. This is where the problem started however. The ink is liquid and 'bleeds' along the grain of the wood, sometimes flowing as much as 2 mm away from the line.

I need advice on how to stop this 'bleeding' of the ink and any other tips on creating a nice dark line on the board. Do I need to try more coats of linseed oil? Perhaps another type of wood treatment such as polyurethanes? Any advice would be appreciated.

Here are some useful resources that have guided me so far...
http://senseis.xmp.net/?path=MakingYourOwnEquipment&page=SurfaceFinish
http://senseis.xmp.net/?path=MakingYourOwnEquipment&page=GobanSelfMade
http://blog.jardinmagique.info/2008/03/goban-howto.html (in french but Google translate helps)

And some snippets from those pages
To ensure that the ink or paint does not soak into the woodgrain, leaving fuzzy lines, test the ink or paint on a scrap of the wood you are using for the board. It may work to apply one coat of clear finish to the wood before applying the lines, then apply the final coat(s) of finish.


(Material: Oak) The finishing was quite long, sanding the board from grain 80 to 260 (glass like surface), application of two preparation coating (which caps wood grain), then three uncolored varnish layers (with sanding grain 600 between each layers, don't forget to put away the dust). I've made the tracing with a Rotring Rapidograph 1mm on a perfectly unpolished surface. Then, three final varnish layers to protect the tracing.

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 5:46 am
by mohsart
My guess is that either or both of 1. Apply a clear varnish on the wood before drawing the lines or 2. Use a thicker kind of ink.

/Mats

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 7:51 am
by RBerenguel
I would add one or two layers of lacquer (nitrocellulose) and then paint. Let dry, and several more layers of lacquer. Of course, you have to enjoy a lacquered finish...

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:10 am
by EdLee
AshR wrote:Perhaps another type of wood treatment such as polyurethanes?
Experiment with different (mixtures of) chemical coatings on your test wood surfaces.
I also used a technical pen, good ink, and different grades of sandpaper like yours.
Also, do some research on the harmful side effects (on your nervous system) from the chemicals.
Here's what I did with very cheap pine from Home Depot:
goban5_CU.jpg
goban5_CU.jpg (60.36 KiB) Viewed 13737 times
It was a good experiment, and many lessons came from it, one of which being
that the quality and craftsmanship of a professionally made Japanese goban are well worth the price
(in fact, IMO quite a bargain).

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 10:17 am
by kex
I used hare glue, available in higher end woodworking shops. Dilute it very thin, as a thick mixture easily darkens the wood colour. Let it dry well. It is water soluble, so after drawing the lines, use a different solvent for the finish.

Another tip: add a couple of layers of tape beneath the metal ruler, so that it is slightly elevated from the wood on the rim. This stops the ink to be drawn between the wood and the ruler due to capillary forces.

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 12:59 pm
by bogiesan
Three grades of sandpaper doesn't mean much, tell us the grits.
But I'd urge you to forget the sandpaper and finish the surface with a proper Japanese-style wood plane. Far more precise and will deliver a far superior surface but, of course, it requires real skill in both wielding it and keeping the iron properly sharp.

You will apply a finish to the board, probably two or three coats, before you apply your lines. That can be any of hundreds of sealers. You get to choose.
You must select a lining medium carefully from a wide variety of inks and lacquers in many densities and colors. The finer boards I've seen are lined with a deep brown lacquer that has a nice crown. Choose an applicator appropriate for the medium. For instance, you will not use India ink in a conventional fountain pen and the nib on a dip pen must hold enough ink to complete an entire line.
There are many techniques and tools to keep your lining medium from wicking under the edge of your lining tool and to give you deadly accurate start and end points. Practice for many days using paper models and some old wooden cutting boards. You must learn how to lower and raise the nib without leaving a blob of ink. To hide the pen's start/stop points, will you draw the outside border first or last? Your order of operations will become clear only during practice.

But I'd urge you to explore using a one-off silkscreen. Most larger markets have silkscreen shops that cater to industries beyond t-shirts. You will provide them with an unscaled Adobe Illustrator file and they will use direct-to-screen digital printing to build a screen. Carefully choose a printing ink. Have them pull a dozen or so practice grids on paper models and some old cutting boards. Make necessary changes. Ask them if you can execute the final screen. Practice on some paper and wood models. You will only get one shot but it's easy to do properly.

IN any event, please come back and tell us how you finished your board.

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2012 1:35 pm
by daniel_the_smith
I hope you're taking pictures of the process!

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 4:50 am
by AshR
Thanks for all your feedback, I have read and considered it all.

EdLee, your grid drawn with technical pen came out very well, I will be happy if mine looks that precise.

My plan is to persevere with the technical pen. First I will try applying more coats of linseed oil to see if that helps with the bleeding problem. If this problem persists I will start trying a clear water-based lacquer or shellac finish. You can buy aerosols of water-based lacquer such as http://www.charnwood.net/shop/product/acrylic-satin-lacquer-400ml-aerosol?cid=90 which may work well.

I wanted to avoid nitrocellulose lacquer and acrylic lacquer due to the solvents in them, water-based lacquer is more environmentally friendly and less toxic.

My aim is to protect and seal the wood and bring out the natural beauty of the grain, but without resulting in an overly varnished end result.

Screen printing is a possibility, but would be an additional expense as I already have the technical pen. Also, drawing the lines myself will give me more satisfaction.

I will put up some pictures when I next get to work on the board.

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 6:35 am
by gowan
The bleeding into the grain comes from the grain "grooves" not being filled in. In other words the surface isn't completely smooth and the ink flows into tiny channels in the surface. Some of those channels might also come from sanding. So it is necessary in the finishing, before drawing the lines, to really seal and "fill" the surface of the board. A very thick ink, like a thick gel, might work. I have doubts about using an oil finish before inking. Oil prevents the ink from sticking to the surface.

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:03 am
by EdLee
AshR,
AshR wrote:EdLee, your grid drawn with technical pen came out very well, I will happy if mine looks that precise.
Thank you. Yea, I've shown the board to people and some of them could not believe the lines were hand drawn;
they thought must have been printed by a machine. So it's doable and is a nice target to shoot for. :mrgreen:

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 8:14 am
by AshR
EdLee, can you tell me if you used any masking around the outside of the grid?

Do you have any other tips or pointers for the drawing of the lines? Any pieces of your hard won knowledge you can impart would be appreciated!

Gowan, I suspect you may be correct about the suitability of oil to 'fill' the grain. A light cut of shellac will hopefully work out in that respect. So my final planned treatment would therefore be 1) shellac 2) ink lines 3) water based acrylic lacquer

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 9:03 am
by EdLee
AshR,
AshR wrote:can you tell me if you used any masking around the outside of the grid?
No masking. All free hand (except for the ruler, of course. :))
After the last sanding (with the finest sandpaper of the few I got),
I used a ruler and pencil to very gently mark the ends of the lines --
in other words only at the edges (the 1st line points: A1, B1, C1, ... S1, T1;
A2, A3, A4, ... A19; B19, C19, D19, ... S19, T19, etc.)
Do you have any other tips or pointers for the drawing of the lines?
The coating of the chemicals is tricky.
You really have to experiment with different finishes, and mixtures of finishes,
to see which combination works best for your type of wood and ink.
For mine, I think it was at least two different layers of coatings.
You have to wait for the first (bottom-most) layer to dry overnight,
and then you need to use your hand to feel the surface, as gowan said,
and if it's too smooth or not smooth enough, you need to re-sand the first coating.
You have to experiment: try inking on the first coating alone -- if the result is good,
then you don't need a second coating. If not, you can try a second coating.
Same process. And experiment with the inking again.

I found out if the coating was too smooth/thick, the ink would not stick (it would "bead" up).
If the coating was too rough/thin, it would bleed. I had to find just the right
combo of coatings and the right amount of sanding to get the ink to look right. :)

My goal, probably similar to yours, was to use the minimal amount of chemicals,
so that the natural beauty of the wood (despite cheap pine from Home Depot) would show through
as much as possible. Alas, as you found out, the ink bleeds on untreated wood surface,
so a lot of prep work is required.

After I figured out the mixtures and combination of coatings that worked
with the ink, I did the inking. That's the final step of the process.
The ink is the final chemical that goes on the surface.

I had to draw each line, once. Let it try (takes a few minutes).
Then, do the same line again, for the right thickness and darkness.
I think each line took over 5 minutes total. :) You can do the math of the time required. :)
After the lines, then the star points. I got one of those plastic templates
with many many different circles with different diameters,
and test to see which size I liked the best. Then I did the star points.

Oh, disclaimer: I had zero woodworking experience before this project,
and afterwards, I was still 29k. Others with extensive woodworking or carpentry experience
would have fantastic advice. And I did 4 "test" boards before I did my final board,
the one with the best "cut"/"grain patterns" from Home Depot. YMMV. :mrgreen:
It was a nice summer project.

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2012 10:40 am
by mohsart
My guess is that a glossy finishing may cause the ink not to stick, a bit of sanding may help, but I'd say a more matte finishing would be better, would look better too IMO.
Depending on exactly what kind, one night may not be enough for the first layer to dry, or a couple of hours may be enough, check the label. And leave it a bit longer than what it says.

But, most kinds are not supposed to be used directly on plain wood, usually a first layer of some kind of oil is recommended. (The idea is that plain wood would suck all the oil from the finishing leaving a layer of whatever is left on the surface, which could cause unwanted results, e.g. cracks like you can see on some porcelain.)

Oh, and you should always sand the surface, and wipe it with a sticky cloth, before applying a new layer.

And a trick to make the surface extra smoth is to, after the last sanding (before the finishing) wipe it with a moist/half-wet cloth, then after it has dried go over it again with the finest sandpaper.

/Mats

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2012 11:20 am
by kex
AshR wrote:EdLee, can you tell me if you used any masking around the outside of the grid?

Do you have any other tips or pointers for the drawing of the lines? Any pieces of your hard won knowledge you can impart would be appreciated!

Gowan, I suspect you may be correct about the suitability of oil to 'fill' the grain. A light cut of shellac will hopefully work out in that respect. So my final planned treatment would therefore be 1) shellac 2) ink lines 3) water based acrylic lacquer


Check beforehand that your lacquer does not smudge the lines. It is safer to use a lacquer or wax with a different solvent for step 3 than for step 2.

Re: Advice needed - Inking the lines on my self-made goban

Posted: Fri May 18, 2012 4:50 am
by cubesmith
You guys have inspired me!
I play a lot of 13x13 and 9x9 games with my brother at home so I am going to make a 13x13 board with a 9x9 board on the reverse.
I already have a 19x19 board before you ask, a fairly cheap one made of bamboo, but I like it. On my new board, I will make the individual grid dimensions the same as my 19x19 board so I can use the stones I already have :)

All your comments have been very useful and I suspect I will try to replicate EdLee's methods/approach when it comes to inking the lines. Exciting times!

Would anyone be interested in my progress updates? If so, should I start a new thread or not?

Cheers,
Scott
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