Life In 19x19

In another thread:

tapir wrote:Did you ever consider to change the collection membership fees from individual payment to payment by / through the chapters? Or are most members outside of chapters anyway?

I think it's worth pursuing some of this.

Other major national organizations I know of collect dues and pass through a portion to local organizations.

In my recent AGA club startup experience, I struggled with dues and collection. I wanted to offer a combined AGA/local single payment (I have the unused marketing material that advertises both), but the logistics were such that I'd have to pay the credit card fees on the whole thing, then remit the full amount due to AGA. It was $30 national and $10 local, so I'd end up paying a net 10% credit card fee (fee on $40, remit $30, keep $10-fees). I've even suggested that I remit national fees net of estimated cost of collection, or net of actual cost of collection. Both were met with skepticism.

One issue is the accounting is much harder if payment goes through groups to the national simiply because the system(s) have been set up the other way around.

Another issue, I think, is that many local organizations don't have any fees. But maybe that's because of the difficulty of working with all that. Some are pay to play, some are annual. Perhaps this question can be on the next club questionairre.

The responses from various people have been basically, it's not worth it because no one else needs it or would use it. Also, "everyone will pay by cash or check, no one takes credit cards" (not an actual quote). Personally, I think this is a chicken-and-egg situation, but I have little data to back me up on this. One out of five members has payed by credit card because he was excited about being a member and didn't have any other method of payment with him: exactly the situation I was planning on. Good think I signed up for squareup.com. Everyone else has payed cash.

I don't think this is exactly a situation of the AGA not listening, it's a situation of not having come up with a solution that solves more problems than it seems to create. The ball is in my court to begin to suggest a different way. I just haven't had time to organize a proposal.

My solution was to drop marketing both the National/Local as one, and simply go after my local $10 per year. Then when the member signs up, send them a link to the half-off national. I think this is sad and probably results in lower conversion, but is the result of the specific national dues policy. I think only one of my five local members is actually a member of AGA, but I'm not sure (I haven't checked). I think several of my members have signed up only because they see my enthusiasm and investment in spreading the word of go locally and in the library of books I provide members.

The two clubs I've been involved with have not had an official membership to the local club, but have held tournaments a few times a year. Local members became AGA members only when they participated in the tournaments.

I suspect that this is the "business model" of many if not most clubs. Perhaps the goal of this thread can be to come up with a multiple-choice question that can be asked of all clubs.

An issue with this is that so many American go clubs meet at coffee shops, and members are expected to buy $4+ of coffee/baked goods/etc. per week to keep the go club in good graces with the proprietor. The question seems to presuppose that the clubs are run like go salons, with revenue flowing to the club in exchange for use of the premises and the equipment.

jts wrote:An issue with this is that so many American go clubs meet at coffee shops, and members are expected to buy $4+ of coffee/baked goods/etc. per week to keep the go club in good graces with the proprietor.

Yes, we have that issue, to. That's one reason we meet on Tuesdays because the expectation from the restaurant is lower and as long as we don't take up space from paying customers, then I think we're okay.

jts wrote:The question seems to presuppose that the clubs are run like go salons, with revenue flowing to the club in exchange for use of the premises and the equipment.

I guess so. It's partly in exchange for the effort and cost it takes to run the club as well as to design, print, and give away materials to get more people to learn go. I give away printed boards and materials to anyone that seems interested. Business cards to everyone. And I bring equipment for everyone to play on (though some bring their own). And I have about $500 worth of books available for members to borrow. I organize group buys to go vendors so we can all save on shipping. I am helping to organize an-out-of-town tournament among multiple clubs. I evangelize to local organizations and, soon, teachers.

I think the members see all of this as valuable. Well probably more accurately: each member sees value in one or more of these activities.

I've chosen annual member dues for my local club and allow free teaching and playing to anyone that shows up. I think this model supports new people learning and playing better than "pay to play" and it's much cheaper annually ($10) than a dollar or two per meeting. I've also chosen this method because I thought that I would have to supply equipment, which it turns out is true for the beginners but some of the experienced usually bring their equipment. Perhaps this is a minority condition/view, and if so, then the AGA taking individual dues may be the best way.

So what are the options for clubs?

Free club, pay at tournaments only
Pay to play
Member dues

Any others?

There are many different scenarios for clubs. One was already mentioned: meet at a coffee shop with an assumed purchase of a certain amount of goods. Others I have experienced: 1) meet in a room at someplace like a church or library and pay a fixed amount per weekly meeting (e.g $25.00 to cover lights, heat, and janitorial service) with attendees "paying to play" to cover the "rent"); 2) same set-up but meeting in a room at a bookstore or other commercial establishment with a weekly payment for the club to use the facility; 3)club rents a dedicated room or rooms with 24/7 access by members and with a fairly high membership dues (e.g. $300 per year) to cover the rent, single non-member attendance is $15 say). These models depend on regular attendance at fairly high level to maintain use of the facility. The coffee shop model is the cheapest and probably the only feasible one for small new clubs. Many clubs that use methods 1) and 2) struggle to survive if attendance drops. Method 3) is only used by one or two clubs in the USA to my knowledge. Yearly club dues can make the whole system work more smoothly since the amount of money available is known well ahead of time. In every case that I know AGA dues are on top of club dues. Chapter dues are paid by the club.

Bit of thread necromancy here, but I'm one of the paying members of msgreg's local club.

I'm pretty sure I paid the local dues in cash the first time I showed up just as a sign of support. We still meet in the same coffee shop & restaurants, so the biggest expense by far is still supporting the host establishment by being paying customers.