Life In 19x19

I'm asking a question I believe everybody did ask himself: "which rank can I expect to reach?"
When I started go, I knew it was a tough game but I thought anyone could reach shodan if they really want to.
I don't believe this anymore.
I'm in my mid-thirties, started go 1.5 year ago and reached 6k KGS, a very humble level. I've got no doubt I can make some more progress (and will try to) but even within 4-5 years time, I'm clearly not confident to be able to reach shodan level.

Did someone here started at about my age and managed to reach 1d KGS? Do you know of some people who did?
What are your beliefs / experience regarding age and maximum level reached?

Actorios wrote:What are your beliefs / experience regarding age and maximum level reached?

I don't have experience, only beliefs. I started when I was about 15 and played about 3 years (then there was no internet go, so I played once a week at local club, averaging perhaps one game / week. In addition to that I read books). I reached 8 kyu before I stopped playing. Now after 25 years hiatus I started again couple of months ago and have since played about 250-300 games on the internet, and perhaps 10 live games at the local club. I'm now 7-8 kyu again (I probably was a couple of stones weaker when I started again). I have no doubt in my mind, that if I continue, I will slowly improve, eventually to dan-level. I don't know what the absolute maximum level would be, it might be around 4 dan, but I will probably quit go (or die) before I reach that.

Actorios wrote:I'm asking a question I believe everybody did ask himself: "which rank can I expect to reach?"

It's a valid question, but I don't think it's very productive to ponder it

Instead, why not ask "What do I need to do in order to become stronger?". If you can identify that (it will change over time), and work on it consistently, you'll be progressing. You'll be busy taking steps to bridge the gap of current reality and fluffy dreams, instead of focusing on the gap.

Besides, 1d kgs is a pretty arbitrary goal in itself.

Helel wrote:

• The one goal I have outside constant improvement in my own time, is to be able to beat God in an even game! Not much hope of that since I must become at least 2 stones stronger than any pro that has ever lived, but that is entirely irrelevant. Just keep at it, one breath at a time.

...and once you are that strong there is the tiny problem of actually getting a game with God

CarlJung wrote:Besides, 1d kgs is a pretty arbitrary goal in itself.

There's a reason for it.
I know a few people of this level who mentioned that they reach a plateau at this level.
wms is stating that at 1000 games played, he is now stabilized at 1k-1d level.

This is my target: I don't have higher expectations at this stage.

What I really would like to know is if others, starting at my age, did manage to get there...

CarlJung wrote:Instead, why not ask "What do I need to do in order to become stronger?". If you can identify that (it will change over time), and work on it consistently, you'll be progressing. You'll be busy taking steps to bridge the gap of current reality and fluffy dreams, instead of focusing on the gap.

You're right and don't take me wrong: I'm not getting mad about it. I've set myself short term goals which I'm trying to reach and I can see that there is a lot more for me to learn, some aspects of which I didn't even scratch the surface yet. I just want to set appropriate expectations for myself as long term goal.

Actorios wrote:I'm asking a question I believe everybody did ask himself: "which rank can I expect to reach?"
When I started go, I knew it was a tough game but I thought anyone could reach shodan if they really want to.
I don't believe this anymore.
I'm in my mid-thirties, started go 1.5 year ago and reached 6k KGS, a very humble level. I've got no doubt I can make some more progress (and will try to) but even within 4-5 years time, I'm clearly not confident to be able to reach shodan level.

Did someone here started at about my age and managed to reach 1d KGS? Do you know of some people who did?
What are your beliefs / experience regarding age and maximum level reached?

I started in my late 30's, after 5 years I've reached 1k (kgs). I'm finding it hard to progress (been at this level for quite a while now). My recommendations are: tsumego, and get a teacher. These two things make the most noticeable difference to me.

A player at my club started at about my age, and has reached 2d, took him 15+ years, although of course most of that time he was only playing weekly, against local players (pre-kgs/igs time). I feel I can reach his level, and perhaps a stone or two stronger, so long as I avoid doing bad things (e.g. playing thoughtless blitz games) and concentrate on doing good things (e.g. tsumego, playing serious games and getting them reviewed by a teacher).

Having said all that, I do think rank fixation is unhealthy. While its sometimes useful as a motivation tool, it can ruin the game too, especially when you experience unavoidable slumps.

Helel wrote:[*] The enemy you have to beat is yourself, what others do is of no significance.

Sure: go is about self-improvement. Still, it's worth understanding if you're shooting for the moon or not.
I guess it's a question of personal mindset: some people make collections of toys, painting... with the goal of collecting as many as possible, some others have a goal: getting everything from a subset.

I personally need to have the end in mind to focus and get there.

At Sensei's Library, someone mentioned starting at age 40 and reaching Dutch 1 kyu (which is equivalent to KGS 1d) after 10 years.

quantumf wrote:

Actorios wrote:I'm asking a question I believe everybody did ask himself: "which rank can I expect to reach?"
When I started go, I knew it was a tough game but I thought anyone could reach shodan if they really want to.
I don't believe this anymore.
I'm in my mid-thirties, started go 1.5 year ago and reached 6k KGS, a very humble level. I've got no doubt I can make some more progress (and will try to) but even within 4-5 years time, I'm clearly not confident to be able to reach shodan level.

Did someone here started at about my age and managed to reach 1d KGS? Do you know of some people who did?
What are your beliefs / experience regarding age and maximum level reached?

I started in my late 30's, after 5 years I've reached 1k (kgs). I'm finding it hard to progress (been at this level for quite a while now). My recommendations are: tsumego, and get a teacher. These two things make the most noticeable difference to me.

A player at my club started at about my age, and has reached 2d, took him 15+ years, although of course most of that time he was only playing weekly, against local players (pre-kgs/igs time). I feel I can reach his level, and perhaps a stone or two stronger, so long as I avoid doing bad things (e.g. playing thoughtless blitz games) and concentrate on doing good things (e.g. tsumego, playing serious games and getting them reviewed by a teacher).

Having said all that, I do think rank fixation is unhealthy. While its sometimes useful as a motivation tool, it can ruin the game too, especially when you experience unavoidable slumps.

Late thirties, 5 years, 1k KGS... That's the kind of things I was hoping to read. Thanks for sharing.
Just a couple questions:
* Which part of the world do you live in?
* When mentioning a teacher, did you mean face to face or online? Which level was your teacher which helped you to get to 1K?

Actorios wrote:

CarlJung wrote:Besides, 1d kgs is a pretty arbitrary goal in itself.

There's a reason for it.
I know a few people of this level who mentioned that they reach a plateau at this level.
wms is stating that at 1000 games played, he is now stabilized at 1k-1d level.

This is my target: I don't have higher expectations at this stage.

What I really would like to know is if others, starting at my age, did manage to get there...

FWIW, people plateau at all levels. It's just that 1d sticks out because that's where the dan ranks start and many people have that as a goal. I don't think it's anything special about that particular plateau. I believe I have seen numbers that more people plateau at 5k or thereabouts. But I understand your point, I just felt the urge to type something

Actorios wrote:Late thirties, 5 years, 1k KGS... That's the kind of things I was hoping to read. Thanks for sharing.
Just a couple questions:
* Which part of the world do you live in?
* When mentioning a teacher, did you mean face to face or online? Which level was your teacher which helped you to get to 1K?

South Africa.

Face to face teaching - occasionally, but strong players don't really exist in South Africa (Roseduke aside), so this would rely on rare visits from strong players.
Online teaching - yes. Had a Chinese 5d teaching me weekly for a few months, helped me move from 2k to 1k, and I'm sure I would have progressed further, if she'd been able to keep teaching me. Reading about direction of play is so abstract, and so hard to apply to your personal understanding and faults, that I find it almost useless. A good teacher can correct your conceptual faults far more effectively than you can on your own.

But I can't stress tsumego enough. Any teacher you get will tell you the same. "Strategy without tactics is the slowest route to victory" is a quote you may have heard. So a teacher can improve your thinking about the game, but you have to have the reading to carry it out. I have found this the hardest thing to get better at.

CarlJung wrote:FWIW, people plateau at all levels. It's just that 1d sticks out because that's where the dan ranks start and many people have that as a goal. I don't think it's anything special about that particular plateau. I believe I have seen numbers that more people plateau at 5k or thereabouts. But I understand your point, I just felt the urge to type something

I think that 5k is a very common plateau. Lot's of people reach it, some even without much effort. Also, if I recall correctly, the peak of the rank/population graph is around 5k. It doesn't really make sense to set yourself a goal there, that would mean that you'll be just "average"

CarlJung wrote:FWIW, people plateau at all levels. It's just that 1d sticks out because that's where the dan ranks start and many people have that as a goal. I don't think it's anything special about that particular plateau. I believe I have seen numbers that more people plateau at 5k or thereabouts. But I understand your point, I just felt the urge to type something

Ok, let's be honest on this one. It's a lot to do with getting recognition.

Books are all emphasizing that dan level is the realm of strong players. Obviously, we would all want to be able to claim that we're strong go players.
During a dinner with some of my wife's colleagues and their significant others, I met a lady from Korea. She was not into baduk but would know what it is and knew the name of a couple famous players. When she learnt that I play go (which was already unusual for her), her first question was "are you a dan player?". I wish I would be able to answer yes to this question somewhere in the future.

flOvermind wrote:I think that 5k is a very common plateau. Lot's of people reach it, some even without much effort. Also, if I recall correctly, the peak of the rank/population graph is around 5k. It doesn't really make sense to set yourself a goal there, that would mean that you'll be just "average"

Well, I do disagree. If your goal is to have a decent knowledge of the game but not be a specialist, this is already a tight target to establish. Let's take an example: if you want to be a jack of all trades of classical boardgames with sufficient knowledge to teach others and play above beginner level, getting to SDK, as easy as it may seem, makes perfect sense.