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Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:37 am
by SuprunP
Toshiro Kageyama in his book "Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go" presents us with some life-and-death problems. Here is one of them with mine and Kageyama's solutions. Does mine work?
Thanks.
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=1780
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:47 am
by Li Kao
White has a stronger move for 4, so your attempt fails.
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 7:55 am
by SuprunP
Li Kao wrote:White has a stronger move for 4, so your attempt fails.
Do you by any chance mean S19?
Thanks.
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 8:01 am
by Li Kao
S19 Q18 P18
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:34 am
by Txewì
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[nvi:1.81.6]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
AW[pa][nb][ob][nc][pc][qc][rc][sc]AB[ma][na][mb][mc][oc][md][nd][od][pd][qd][rd][sd]
;B[pb];W[qb]
(;B[oa];W[ra]
(;B[sb];W[pb]C[White is alive.])
(;B[pb];W[sb]C[White is alive.]))
(;B[ra];W[oa]C[White is alive.]))
Here's how it plays out in full. B can slice off a few stones but W lives.
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:40 am
by Li Kao
Txewì, you're wrong.
In your second sequence w6 lives, but loses points compared to p8.
And your claim that w is alive after the third sequence is plain wrong.
---
I think Suprun's b1 ends in ko.
(;GM[1]FF[4]CA[UTF-8]AP[CGoban:3]ST[2]
RU[Japanese]SZ[19]KM[0.00]
AW[pa][nb][ob][nc][pc][qc][rc][sc]AB[ma][na][mb][mc][oc][md][nd][od][pd][qd][rd][sd]C[Black to kill]MULTIGOGM[1]
(;B[ra]C[Kageyama's solution]
;W[rb]
;B[sa]
;W[pb]
;B[qa]C[White dies.])
(;B[pb]C[Mine solution (kind of)]
;W[qb]
(;B[oa]
(;W[pb]C[wrong move by w]
;B[ra])
(;W[ra]
(;B[sb]
;W[pb])
(;B[pb]
;W[ob]
;B[nb]
;W[pb])))
(;B[ra]
(;W[rb]
;B[oa]
;W[sa]
;B[sb]C[ko])
(;W[oa]C[wrong move by w]
;B[qa]
;W[pb])
(;W[sa]
(;B[sb]
;W[rb]
;B[oa]
;W[sa]
;B[pb]
;W[ob]
;B[sb]C[ko])
(;B[rb]
;W[oa]
;B[sb]C[seki])))))
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 10:46 am
by blade90
@Txewì: In you first sequence
is gote (white can live without answering). Locally White connects with
to save 3 stones but it is not needed.
Re: Black to kill (T. Kageyama)
Posted: Sun Jun 03, 2012 2:49 pm
by xed_over
Txewì, you're wrong.
don't be so hard on Txewì... the whole point is that SuprunP's "solution" doesn't work (for various reasons).