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168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 5:17 pm
by blindgod
Japanese Rules (I don't know any other all that well). Komi is -6.5

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sat Jun 09, 2012 9:02 pm
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like hoshi (4.4) too much coz the invasion at 3.3. I always prefer komoku (3.4) and hopefully can build chinese fuseki

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:28 am
by blindgod
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I've been playing a 4-4 & a 3-4 on the same side. This allows me the simple options of going for orthodox, mini-chinese, or micro-chinese fusekis, or approaching either of white's stones (assuming he plays in the empty corner). Of course, there's the possiblity he may play White4 at D15, but I'll jump off that bridge when I come to it.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 6:17 am
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

owh,I see.I'm reading the mini chinese and micro chinese since this afternoon. lol. I'm still trying to figure out the chinese variant that I'll use in my upcoming tourney.but,I more prefer this one that I use right now.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 9:20 am
by blindgod
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I considered approaching at Q5, because if white attaches at R5, the joseki might allow me to build a framework on the right side while white builds one on the bottom. However, if white pincers, he might be able to build a framework on the bottom anyway with less profit for me. So, in effort to keep things simpler, I decided to enclose instead.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:04 pm
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . X . . . . . . 6 . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Yes. I think it's still common for enclose there.Now to prevent white for making upper side to be their's, I'll split in the middle and I'm sente too.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 4:57 pm
by snorri
bakekoq wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
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$$ | . . . b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I don't like hoshi (4.4) too much coz the invasion at 3.3. I always prefer komoku (3.4) and hopefully can build chinese fuseki


Ah, the famous "Move 2 Lost The Game" from Kajiwara's The Direction of Play. :)

Of course, it's not that simple and there are pros who will play this move even today. But it's worth considering the difference between this :w2: and playing at 'a' or (equivalently but more politely) 'b'.

There are some other places this is discussed, so no need to repeat here.

In the modern komi period (since 2002) black won 73% of the 26 games in winter GoGOD when played this way. For amateurs I don't think this loses, but maybe one should have a special strategy, like really having studied the patterns if black approaches :w2: early.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Sun Jun 10, 2012 5:49 pm
by blindgod
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . O . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I must admit, I was more expecting K17, O17, or an enclosure on the bottom right side. From most of what I've read and seen, the "correct" way to respond to K17 would be an extension from my enclosure. However, since white played L17 instead, I'm a little more concerned about my 4-4 stone. As such, I'm choosing a large knight extension from the 4-4. Small knight seems too peaceful a response. I expect W8 to be at H17. But I didn't expect L17, so we'll have to see.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2012 6:14 pm
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 8 . . . O . 7 . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I also think that commonly H17 is the answer, but It will let black to push from the left side. So, I think it's better to make one more column even though black can reduce/invade it later.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 4:09 am
by blindgod
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


Now that I have some time: I thought both about playing a shoulder hit against the white stone in the upper left, and about extending off my top right enclosure. However, I chose this move as being bigger and that it works with the enclosure.


Oops. Well, I guess that's what happens when you're in a rush to get out the door: you forget to include an end-spoiler tag.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 7:11 am
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 0 . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Trigger 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c Trigger 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Wed Jun 13, 2012 9:01 am
by blindgod
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I thought about playing Q4, if just for the "you've got to be joking" factor. However, this joseki is simpler, I actually know it, and if played out fully, ends with black having sente.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 5:31 am
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


yes,I also already get behind by this. But, U surely know my continuation after this. here we go.

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 9:45 am
by blindgod
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Re: 168 - blindgod vs bakekoq

Posted: Thu Jun 14, 2012 3:22 pm
by bakekoq
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm10
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . O . X . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X O . . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

As I thought, u see it clearly. if u don't go there, I'll go there next. even though I still can reduce it.ok here we go.