Life In 19x19

Hello to the 19*19 community!

I am a newborn in the go world (i've just bought my goban and an beginner's book), and i was looking for a go forum to discuss with other players, GD was likely to be dead (i couldn't post ), therefore i've arrived here! I'm a french student, so excuse me for the english mistakes =)
Actually i've lost ALL my games on kgs, have you some tips to improve my game (i've already download a huge tsumego book to work my lecture)?

Thx,

Elesthor

Hi Elesthor!

Welcome to L19.

In terms of getting better ... ask questions! People here and on KGS are always willing to help out beginners. Ask for teaching games, reviews, etc.

Welcome! Play games, and you'll improve. Plenty of other French speakers around too (not me, sadly), so you're not alone. Glad to have you around. Like Marcus says, if you have any questions, just ask!

Thanx for your welcome

I've a question about the fuseki, do you think it is better for a beginner to concentrate on one or two ( and learn the main related josekis ) or trying to watch a lot of them quickly?

If you're just starting out, I recommend picking one thing and trying it for a while until you get a general idea of how it works. I recommend starting with 4-4 stones as your opening, just because that will also help you know how to play in handicap games. Once you feel a little more confident about those, try 3-4 or 3-3, mixed in with the 4-4 you're already comfortable with.

Bienvenue et enchanté

May your journey with go be long and joyful.

Just to get started you can sign up at 321go.org. Once you have taken the course and done the exercise you should be around 15 kyu.

Elesthor wrote:Thanx for your welcome

I've a question about the fuseki, do you think it is better for a beginner to concentrate on one or two ( and learn the main related josekis ) or trying to watch a lot of them quickly?

As was mentioned above, most beginners start with Nirensei and play games with that for a while as both White or Black. The advantage of this is how (relatively) simple the continuations are.

However, as a brand new beginner, don't worry too much about joseki. Start with understanding individual moves (ask questions like "Why did THIS move work for my opponent?" and "What if THIS move was THERE instead?"). Once you start to understand individual moves, it becomes easier to see good shape. With good shape, joseki start to be more easily understood. It will be a while before you should start studying joseki. Don't get discouraged, though. It will come eventually.

I'm a beginner, too.

What I like to play when I'm black is the star point in the upper right, and then just below the star point in the lower right.

I like the advice that Marcus gives. Focusing on individual moves is a really good idea. I haven't done it yet, but studying what would have happened is an excellent way to learn.

Don't get discouraged, the wins will eventually come. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions if you have any.

Suji wrote:I'm a beginner, too.

What I like to play when I'm black is the star point in the upper right, and then just below the star point in the lower right.

I like the advice that Marcus gives. Focusing on individual moves is a really good idea. I haven't done it yet, but studying what would have happened is an excellent way to learn.

Don't get discouraged, the wins will eventually come. Also, don't be afraid to ask questions if you have any.

Welcome, Elesthor!

Just to be clear (and to show you how to post diagrams), do you mean this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Opening 1
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , 3 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Or this?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Opening 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . , . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Both are ok, as long as you have a plan in mind.

If you prefer to react to your opponent, nirensei (two star points in a row) is better. It's what I started with and what I still play a lot.

Thx for the site karaklis

hum, sinrensei looks nice, but won't i risk a double san-san invasion ?

Of course it is good for the center conrol,but for a beginner, the priority isn't to make stable territory fast?

Elesthor wrote:Thx for the site karaklis

hum, sinrensei looks nice, but won't i risk a double san-san invasion ?

Of course it is good for the center conrol,but for a beginner, the priority isn't to make stable territory fast?

No! Don't start by building bad habits through over-prioritising stable territory. The only way you can start to understand the usefulness of the thickness double san-san invasions will give you is by letting it happen. If you avoid it, that'll always be a hole in your understanding.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Opening 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . t e n |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . p o i n t s |
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ {AR P3 P9}
$$ {AR P17 P11}[/go]

As far as the double-invasion goes, let 'em try! The invasion gives your opponent about ten points in each corner, but in response, you get huge walls overshadowing the east side of the board. These walls radiate strength in the direction of the arrows. Everything between them becomes your 'turf'. While it is not territory and points yet, any opponent stones that wander into your turf will be attacked immediately, and you will be building territory, points, and more walls as you chase them away. The 3-3 invasion is a very useful tool, but it's often bad for the person who does it, compared to their other options. That is, approaching a corner from one side or the other tends to build a shape that has access to the center and can continue doing things for you. Once you can no longer approach either side easily (if your opponent has already extended in both directions), the 3-3 invasion becomes attractive. Since you can't get anything else in the area, it's great for you to get ten easy points and deprive your opponent of 20 or so.

So don't be too concerned. Pick any corner stone locations you're curious about and give it a shot. =)

Thank you for the explanation! I will try the sinrensei in my next game =)


You speak about approaching the hoshi's stone, but which moves are good in order to attack this point? And in a more general way, to attack corners?

Well, there are all sorts of possible ways for approaching or attacking corners. The one most common is a knight's move approach (shown below).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code

[go]$$B Opening 2
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . 1 b . . c . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . a . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]

This is often best when you have the other star point in the direction you approach from (like black does here). That starts to have your stones working together already. 'a', 'b', 'c', and 'd' should all be options black to approach the corner in different situations, as well.

How the black stone attacks the white one? It is not in contact... It just prevents from a white extension, doesn't it?