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Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 9:56 pm
by calm2
$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . . , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . . , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]
I am unsure how to respond to W 1, can anyone show some solid variations?
Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Mon Jul 16, 2012 10:24 pm
by lemmata
As far as I know, this is a peaceful joseki.
The simplest way is to just extend back. White will probably fix his position and black will have sente.
$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]
Black can also counter-hane. White cutting at

instead of

leads to black getting more corner territory.
$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . 7 . . . . .
$$ - . 4 1 . . . .
$$ - . 5 X W 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 . 8 .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . 7 . . . . .
$$ - . 4 1 . . . .
$$ - . 5 X W 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 . 8 .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]
Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 10:08 am
by judicata
The title says "large knight," but the diagram shows a two-space jump. Did you mean to ask about something other than the diagram?
Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 12:53 pm
by Bill Spight
judicata wrote:The title says "large knight," but the diagram shows a two-space jump. Did you mean to ask about something other than the diagram?
This is what he means:
$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 5 . . . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . . . , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 2 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 5 . . . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . . . , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 2 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]

elsewhere.

is the large knight's approach.

is the contact play.

Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Tue Jul 17, 2012 3:07 pm
by judicata
Bill Spight wrote:This is what he means:
Ahh, ok. Would've realized that had I looked more closely rather than glanced and not seen a knight's move.
Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 3:43 am
by calm2
To me both sequences seem--well-- anemic.
lemmata wrote:As far as I know, this is a peaceful joseki.
The simplest way is to just extend back. White will probably fix his position and black will have sente.
$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]
$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . 3 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . 3 1 . . . .
$$ - . . X W . . .
$$ - . . 2 , . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]
3 here seems to be a vital point for both players. If W tenuki, B 3 if not sente is close.
So W 3 is reverse sente ( or close to reverse sente ) and though W is low and ends in gote ( but overall the same amount of moves spent in the corner, my feeling is that B shape is just miserable.
lemmata wrote:Black can also counter-hane. White cutting at

instead of

leads to black getting more corner territory.
$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . 7 . . . . .
$$ - . 4 1 . . . .
$$ - . 5 X W 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 . 8 .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
- Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ ---------------
$$ - . 7 . . . . .
$$ - . 4 1 . . . .
$$ - . 5 X W 3 . .
$$ - . . 6 2 . 8 .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . X . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . .[/go]
In this diagram W has the slightest bit of bad aji to the right of 1, but I can't help feel that B has loads more bad aji.
I can't help but fell that in both cases B is worse off considering that he spent one more move in that corner.
Re: Joseki Question-- large knight kikari + contact
Posted: Fri Jul 27, 2012 7:29 am
by jts
If you don't like anemic sequences, play tighter approach moves - if you act like W has cooties, you won't have any severe follow-up when he takes sente. Why did you play the ogeima kakari in the first place? Presumably you weren't angling to get corner territory.