Life In 19x19

Some people call it loss aversion. Some people call it rank obsession. Some people complain that they don’t have enough time to invest in a game. Some call it ladder anxiety. Regardless of the reasons for feeling nervous and not playing today, right now, here is some advice from a 6 dan professional.

“The truth is that people who don’t play, don’t improve.”

You can study tsumego until your eyes roll into the back of your head. Without playing, you won’t be able to break into the truly strong ranks.

My particular excuse for not playing was that I was afraid of making the same mistakes over and over again. I thought that it would solidify these mistakes into some pattern I could never unlearn. So, I chose to study hundreds of tsumego problems and review many pro games before I played even one game. When I mentioned this to the pro, he told me that I was crazy and that there were no negative points about playing a lot of games. Imagine that?

So don’t be nervous. Even if you lose, grumble about it and laugh but promise the guy you lost to that you'll return with a longer stick.

Agree or disagree, let's discuss.

Similar advice, but from a Starcraft professional: "More gg, more skill".

1000 games to shodan

palapiku wrote:1000 games to shodan

And after shodan?

I am not sure if this is true nor how I can check the statistic, but I've heard that roughly 25% of AGA members are currently shodan.

Shodan is not the truly strong rank (5d+) that I was referring to while I am sure the advice remains sound.

Come to think of it, as a shodan, I think I've only played about 1000 games...

I'm a bit torn on this issue, and I'm not consistent in how I feel about it.

On one hand, I do feel like a sluggish procrastinator when it comes to actually playing the game, and I know it hinders or slows down my progress. I'd like to make it to shodan some day, but I'm uncertain if I'm willing to deal with the "discomfort" that comes with working on achieving that goal. Competitive aspects (and that is what it is for me when I start to worry about ranks and progress) are not something I valuein my recreation time.

You see, like everyone else I do plenty of things I don't "feel" like doing in my every day job. Be it my boss dumping some social problem with a customer into my lap when I am already running low on social energy and my bag of smiley faces is almost empty, or having to localize another sufficiently large chunk of overly verbose and artsy fantasy text after a tiring day because I can't lose the deadline out of sight.

So, when it comes to Go, I want to have "fun", not "work". "Fun" may occasionally be playing a random match with tight time controls and a rank at stake, but more often it's doing tsumego, playing over a pro game or studying a Go topic that interests me (a fuseki, for example). None of that is as "useful" and "efficient" as playing, but all of it is more fun than dealing with the "anxiety" that frequently comes with playing online or doing something that I don't want to do only because “The truth is that people who don’t play, don’t improve.”

Then I won't improve, but I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of Go that way.

My excuse is that I didn't improve for too long from playing.

My issue is actually the reverse - I prefer to play (admittedly fast, sometimes blitzy, games) rather than working on problems.

I concur wholeheartedly with Mivo's opinion in that I value having fun over improvement. Of course, the latter would allow me to enjoy more intricate and complex games, but if I have to do more problems to achieve it, I'm fine with where I'm at :p

I think it is a bad attitude to not play because of 'fear'. Fear basically of losing because of not being at the top of your mental abilities in that moment.

Reason is the one mentioned: Improvement comes from playing. Sure, studying is good to learn something new, may it be strategy or life-and-death or whatever. Still you have to apply it in your games in order to gain strength.

So instead of wanting to win your games, it is better to want to learn from your games. And often you learn more from a lost game than from a won game.

So if I am not in top-notch form, I choose a longer time control so that I still have enough time to think when my brain is working kinda slow, e.g. after a full day of work.

Most important reason of all, though: Playing IS fun, right?

I do agree with Mivo, I think the most important thing is having fun and if doing problems for half an hour is guaranteed fun versus the possibility of getting a bad mannered opponent online or whatever then there's nothing wrong with setting fun above improvement as your goal. I love playing people I know, I find it relaxes me a lot, I find playing strangers daunting in comparison. A lot of that is anxiety rather than fear of losing, I lose a lot to the people I know! But yes, without the local go club and regularly getting a few games in each week with much stronger players there I think my improvement would have been greatly reduced as I find it harder to find time to put into games online at home with the kids and such (my wife has no problem with me going off for a few hours to play go at the club, she encourages it, but she finds it hard to accept me being in a "do not disturb" zone on the computer in the room beside her if the kids are acting up).

I'd also much rather play than study. I'm a bit surprised that the opposite is even possible!

I suppose it's also a function of level - at my level, just playing is proving to be study enough, and I'm improving gradually. If there comes a time when I level off, I suppose I'll pick up a book or three, but I can't see my preference for playing over studying ever changing.

Mivo wrote:So, when it comes to Go, I want to have "fun", not "work". "Fun" may occasionally be playing a random match with tight time controls and a rank at stake, but more often it's doing tsumego, playing over a pro game or studying a Go topic that interests me (a fuseki, for example). None of that is as "useful" and "efficient" as playing, but all of it is more fun than dealing with the "anxiety" that frequently comes with playing online or doing something that I don't want to do only because “The truth is that people who don’t play, don’t improve.”

Then I won't improve, but I'll get a lot more enjoyment out of Go that way.

Improvement vs. Enjoyment: Of course, I believe that not a single person here will argue with you. Go is a game (pros may not agree on this point alone) which should be fun and exciting, after all. You should do what you enjoy doing, otherwise Go loses its purpose for you.

The post is more geared toward people who like improving, but don't like playing. I wanted it to induce a little shock factor because honestly it has taken me a long time to get over the idea that I can make it far into the dan ranks by completing tsumego alone. It won't.

I had a very interesting conversation with a promotional guru at congress this year. His idea was that instead of bashing people for enjoying the game the way they like and criticizing peoples’ moves, we should let people play moves they like to play, study books they like to study, and generally enjoy the game. He argued that our circle would be much better off with three million 25 kyu players than with a handful of 7dan players. I wholeheartedly agree with him.

You’ll be able to see his speech when this year’s Go Symposium videos are posted.

Do computer or small board games count? I've literally lost hundreds of 9x9 and 13x13 games to Smart go, Igowin, and Crazy Stone.

WenMing wrote:Do computer or small board games count? I've literally lost hundreds of 9x9 and 13x13 games to Smart go, Igowin, and Crazy Stone.

For me, not really. I don't even think at all when playing against computer, so I don't gain anything. It's just a time killer. It depends how you go into it.

WenMing wrote:Do computer or small board games count? I've literally lost hundreds of 9x9 and 13x13 games to Smart go, Igowin, and Crazy Stone.

If you play against Crazystone at its highest setting (it's like 6d now, isn't it?) I believe it will help. The computer truly comes up with some creative moves sometimes.

Koosh wrote:I had a very interesting conversation with a promotional guru at congress this year. His idea was that instead of bashing people for enjoying the game the way they like and criticizing peoples’ moves, we should let people play moves they like to play, study books they like to study, and generally enjoy the game. He argued that our circle would be much better off with three million 25 kyu players than with a handful of 7dan players. I wholeheartedly agree with him.

Yes, Terry Benson has some very unique ideas, and is quite passionate about them. I too agree with him.

I think its why I no longer play go. I'm not trying to improve. I don't want to review each and every move in painstaking detail after every game. I don't care if I don't win the tournament.

I enjoy the game. It would be nice if I can eventually get better, but its no longer necessary for my enjoyment of the game. I like teaching beginners. I don't need to be pro or even dan level to do so.

Sometimes, I just want to play, without having to put too much thought into the game.