Life In 19x19

For an 8 kyu, which one would you recommend? Thanks.

Opening theory made easy.

Both. I know this doesn't help much but they are very different books and both very valuable in their own right.

Fundamentals has a lot of material on the opening but also a lot on later parts of the game. I'd pick Fundamentals if you can only get one book, but I'd second the motion to get both because each has its own take on the area of the game they both discuss, i.e. not a lot of repetition.

8 kyu where? What are you looking for? What is your preliminary knowledge?

jts wrote:Opening theory made easy.

I don't have fundamental principles, but Opening theory made easy was an eye opener, so I second that.

Thanks for the suggestions. Looks like I'll get both of them.

Opening theory made easy was a great book when I was beginning, and its simple principles to remember helped me a lot in the beginning. However, at 8k they were not that helpful anymore, I was looking into more advanced opening theory. So, it depends how much opening theory have you read, if you are comfortable with the opening, among other things.

Answering RobertJasiek's question will probably helps us recommend you a good book.

As for Fundamental Principles, I haven't read it yet, so can't comment.

I disagree with phelan's implication that at 8k the normal go player is beyond OTME. I think I first read it when I was quite weak, but I had zero comprehension of it until I was ~4k. And I even, pace phelan, have trouble believing an 8k could be studying more advanced opening theory than this, unless he means he was memorizing fuseki lines. It's the learning that is made easy, not the theory itself, which is quite full and complex.

At the point when you rarely break any of otake's principles on basics, shape, or strategy, your opening will be quite impressive.

jts wrote:I disagree with phelan's implication that at 8k the normal go player is beyond OTME. I think I first read it when I was quite weak, but I had zero comprehension of it until I was ~4k. And I even, pace phelan, have trouble believing an 8k could be studying more advanced opening theory than this, unless he means he was memorizing fuseki lines. It's the learning that is made easy, not the theory itself, which is quite full and complex.

At the point when you rarely break any of otake's principles on basics, shape, or strategy, your opening will be quite impressive.

I currently have it on my todo list to re-read it. So I second that.

Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is infinitely more entertaining, so I would recommend that one to an 8k.

Time wrote:Lessons in the Fundamentals of Go is infinitely more entertaining, so I would recommend that one to an 8k.

Which is completely different from either of the two books asked about.

lol Thanks for suggesting lessons. I`m currently reading it.

By the way, I am around 8 kyu on KGS, and I am looking for materials to improve my opening strategies from knowing where the leftover 'big points' are to knowing how to choose josekis effectively. I guess for the latter, I should start by memorizing a few corner josekis including ones where someone tenuki. Would you recommend the joseki collection at sensei`s library or those covered in the form of a book? Also, knowing how to punish the deviations from josekis may be useful. Thanks.

jts wrote:I disagree with phelan's implication that at 8k the normal go player is beyond OTME. I think I first read it when I was quite weak, but I had zero comprehension of it until I was ~4k. And I even, pace phelan, have trouble believing an 8k could be studying more advanced opening theory than this, unless he means he was memorizing fuseki lines. It's the learning that is made easy, not the theory itself, which is quite full and complex.

At the point when you rarely break any of otake's principles on basics, shape, or strategy, your opening will be quite impressive.

I'm sorry if it seemed I was implying that a normal 8k go player would be beyond OTME. I intended only to speak of my situation, and therefore, imply that it is different for different players.

As for the study of opening theory, I did feel that OTME didn't offer me much more at that point. I started reading all I could on the various openings and their respective ideas as I could on sensei's. I really wanted to buy Ishigure Ikuro's In the Beginning, and other similar material. I only did buy it much later, but the urge was there. Luckily, there's lots of material available on openings on senseis, and that kept me busy.
I'll have to reread OTME to see if I change my mind on what it still can offer me.

As for having an impressive opening, I think not. I play the simplest ideas I can think of, and a lot of it comes from intuition, so I can't really say I'm applying the theory I studied then.

pragmaticleas wrote:I am around 8 kyu on KGS, and I am looking for materials to improve my opening strategies [...] from knowing where the leftover 'big points' are

OTME is too advanced for your needs. Read First Fundamentals: it has easy and very efficient advice (in particular about big spaces and valuable shape points) for your level and that purpose.

to knowing how to choose josekis effectively. I guess for the latter, I should start by memorizing a few corner josekis including ones where someone tenuki. Would you recommend the joseki collection at sensei`s library or those covered in the form of a book? Also, knowing how to punish the deviations from josekis may be useful.

To really understand joseki in this manner, you would need to acquire too much knowledge for your level. Set more modest aims, e.g., how to keep things simple and how to avoid bad shape moves. Once you will have mastered that (see the aforementioned book), there is still time to read detailed joseki books afterwards.

The other books and more that could be mentioned are all worth reading, but you should really start with basic advice before advanced advice. A solid understanding of the former will then make it easier to understand also the latter.