Life In 19x19

I wanted to make a bit of a lighthearted thread so you can see not everything is criticism =).

I must say that after using Kaya for a week, I'm really happy with how it's turning out. Granted, it's not perfect yet, but it shows great design and a very elegant layout. I'm excited for Kaya and can't wait for the technical problems it faces to be fixed.

Thank you very much for working for this. I'm a little short on money currently but otherwise I'd support without a doubt.

Falcord wrote:I wanted to make a bit of a lighthearted thread so you can see not everything is criticism =).

I must say that after using Kaya for a week, I'm really happy with how it's turning out. Granted, it's not perfect yet, but it shows great design and a very elegant layout. I'm excited for Kaya and can't wait for the technical problems it faces to be fixed.

Thank you very much for working for this. I'm a little short on money currently but otherwise I'd support without a doubt.

Thanks a lot We are working really hard, putting a lot of effort to add more and more features.

One thing that might do good: HD video of games played on Kaya to show that drop dead gorgeous UI of yours! Most Go server UIs look bland or amateurish at best, the brilliant look is one of your biggest assets. Utilize it!

Zombie wrote:One thing that might do good: HD video of games played on Kaya to show that drop dead gorgeous UI of yours! Most Go server UIs look bland or amateurish at best, the brilliant look is one of your biggest assets. Utilize it!

This is a good idea and I agree with the looks advantage (also, better sounds).

Alguien wrote:

Zombie wrote:One thing that might do good: HD video of games played on Kaya to show that drop dead gorgeous UI of yours! Most Go server UIs look bland or amateurish at best, the brilliant look is one of your biggest assets. Utilize it!

This is a good idea and I agree with the looks advantage (also, better sounds).

You should check out the new countdown voices. They still need a bit of polishing to my taste, but they are a nice improvement

Zombie wrote:One thing that might do good: HD video of games played on Kaya to show that drop dead gorgeous UI of yours! Most Go server UIs look bland or amateurish at best, the brilliant look is one of your biggest assets. Utilize it!

I think the UI is one of the weakest points. The top bar is gigantic, takes up so much screen space for 3 buttons. Google does it pretty good with the top bar to switch between their different products. The list of users on the chat list is also really inefficient, the names are spaced out so much for some reason. You could double the amount of names displayed easily with that amount of room. The way they are displayed in game is much much better.

I have trouble with the tiny scroll bars, game buttons, and then inefficient use of space on the main screen.

Some things are working well, but the UI needs much work.

oren wrote:I have trouble with the tiny scroll bars, game buttons, and then inefficient use of space on the main screen.

Some things are working well, but the UI needs much work.

translation: i need a kaya version for the clicking impaired:D

keep up the good work gabriel:P

Pretty much. I'm getting old.

However, no other major server has as bad a ui as kaya right now. I assume that is a work in progress.

oren wrote:I have trouble with the tiny scroll bars, game buttons, and then inefficient use of space on the main screen.

The scroll bars are a fine size, your computer just stinks: it's a shame that there are still computers/OSes that don't support multitouch gestures for scrolling. (Note: I have a computer that stinks in the exact same way).

hyperpape wrote:The scroll bars are a fine size, your computer just stinks

Nice to know my computers all stink.

The Kaya U.I. has potential but I will agree that, at the moment, it sucks. Those Javascript animations are so painfully slow it is ridiculous (even in Chrome, on an i7, where there is no excuse) and the little U.I. bugs that seem to persist for ages drive me crazy - boxes not focussing or stealing focus, or invisible text on certain backgrounds, etc. Also, what's with the tiny clocks?

My two biggest problems with Kaya are not U.I. related, however.

The single biggest problem is the integration of the ASR - way too early! At the moment, you might as well rename it the ASR server because all the open games are ASR games (whenever I log on) and non-ASR players can't join those. I have even seen TWO open ASR game challenges and no users actually playing, added my own non-ASR challenge and disconnected in frustration ten minutes later after getting no takers.

The second problem is the Karma system. Honestly, why? It is unnecessary, distracting and detracts from the point of the server: playing Go. Also, it seems to steer the majority of the chat in open channels towards Karma-begging. Lose it!

Charlie wrote:
The single biggest problem is the integration of the ASR - way too early! At the moment, you might as well rename it the ASR server because all the open games are ASR games (whenever I log on) and non-ASR players can't join those. I have even seen TWO open ASR game challenges and no users actually playing, added my own non-ASR challenge and disconnected in frustration ten minutes later after getting no takers.

It does seem that quite a few people not in the ASR come to Kaya to check it out briefly and don't seem to play much, whereas the ASR members are already taking it seriously and pushing for improvements. As far as I can tell, quite a bit of progress is taking place due to the active beta testing by ASR members, and an offered ASR game hardly prevents other games from taking place. Playing in the ASR is a great way to get to know the features of the server, as you will often encounter players there who know a bit about how things work there. There's still room in beta.

daal wrote:

Charlie wrote:
The single biggest problem is the integration of the ASR - way too early! At the moment, you might as well rename it the ASR server because all the open games are ASR games (whenever I log on) and non-ASR players can't join those. I have even seen TWO open ASR game challenges and no users actually playing, added my own non-ASR challenge and disconnected in frustration ten minutes later after getting no takers.

It does seem that quite a few people not in the ASR come to Kaya to check it out briefly and don't seem to play much, whereas the ASR members are already taking it seriously and pushing for improvements. As far as I can tell, quite a bit of progress is taking place due to the active beta testing by ASR members, and an offered ASR game hardly prevents other games from taking place. Playing in the ASR is a great way to get to know the features of the server, as you will often encounter players there who know a bit about how things work there. There's still room in beta.

I'll agree that Charlie has overstated it a bit, but I understand the sentiment and would echo it in a slightly different way --

The single biggest problem with Kaya is that there has been such a rush to implement new requested features that aren't seen on any other go server, that common features we enjoy on our current go servers have been neglected. I think part of this problem stems from the way feature requests are managed. If you have the community voting on what they really want to see, the first things they think of are all the stuff they don't get anywhere else...while the mundane things they take for granted and are accustomed to aren't on the forefront of their minds (because those desires are being met elsewhere).

It would be similar to saying "Man, I really wish I had a car with a rear facing camera! Think of how easy it would be to park!". Then you go out to test drive a new car that has a rear facing camera, only to find out it has a manual transmission, or no power windows. What you really meant to say was "I wish that my current car that has automatic transmission/power windows/every-other-amenity-I-am-used-to had a rear facing camera" but you don't think to list all those things you use on a day-in day-out basis because, y'know...you were used to them always being there...

Mef wrote:The single biggest problem with Kaya is that there has been such a rush to implement new requested features that aren't seen on any other go server, that common features we enjoy on our current go servers have been neglected. I think part of this problem stems from the way feature requests are managed. If you have the community voting on what they really want to see, the first things they think of are all the stuff they don't get anywhere else...while the mundane things they take for granted and are accustomed to aren't on the forefront of their minds (because those desires are being met elsewhere).

It would be similar to saying "Man, I really wish I had a car with a rear facing camera! Think of how easy it would be to park!". Then you go out to test drive a new car that has a rear facing camera, only to find out it has a manual transmission, or no power windows. What you really meant to say was "I wish that my current car that has automatic transmission/power windows/every-other-amenity-I-am-used-to had a rear facing camera" but you don't think to list all those things you use on a day-in day-out basis because, y'know...you were used to them always being there...

That's quite a nice way of putting it, although I think you may also be overstating it a bit Kaya is not THAT focused on doodads. However, I do agree with you that the focus should really be on the absolute basics - rock solid game and scoring system, robust/reliable time system, competent and trustworthy ranking system, solid handicap system, and most importantly, a decent player base. I don't think the kaya guys realize the extent that they actually already have a killer feature, namely an HTML-based go server that runs over HTTP. The other stuff like tournaments, videos, karma and sensei's integration, while undoubtedly cool, and important in the long run, are far less important right now.