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#186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:07 pm
by skydyr
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: noneI won nigiri, so I am black.
[hide]I don't have a plan yet, and komoku is kind of my default opening.
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:09 pm
by skydyr
I should emphasize that this is a grudge match. Me against my playing last time I played topazg, and probably him against his as well.
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:30 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:33 pm
by skydyr
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none[hide]Let's go orthodox.
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 6:38 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Wed Nov 21, 2012 8:19 pm
by skydyr
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none[hide]I've been playing in a way filled with overplay, unreasonable moves, and the creation of weak groups of late. I think I've also been playing wishful moves when I know they don't work. I'm going to try not to do that too much this game.
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 12:44 am
by EdLee
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:14 am
by topazg
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: noneFor beginners:
It's not wrong to play the wedge at R10, but it's also fairly common to play one closer to the shimari, as the extension from the shimari is typically larger than the extension from the solitary corner stone. As a result, playing closer restricts the size of the possible extension, and still leaves White the two point extension on each side. On the other hand, White ends up closer to Black's thickness after the following relatively common continuation, which is one of the reason I dislike playing against the orthodox:
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: noneAnd this sort of thing is why I don't like playing against the orthodox - Black ends up with the position I like.
EDIT: I could also approach with "a" which seems particularly common these days in pro games, but I really don't understand well enough how to deal with the position after Black pincers, so I'm trying to play something simple.
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 2:27 am
by EdLee
For beginners. topazg wrote: It's not wrong to play the wedge at R10, but it's fairly common to play one closer to the shimari
Not sure what topazg meant by that.
A database search of 50,744 pro games returned 718 for R10(a), and 33 for R11(d).
$$Bc
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:37 am
by skydyr
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none[hide]
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: noneI'm torn between trying to start the middle game by pressuring this group, or breaking up white's potential on the side.
In the future, I'd also prefer getting the bottom side to the top, as I think it's bigger.
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:18 am
by topazg
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Going to take the time to settle my group a bit first ... aiming at the following if Black doesn't pincer:
$$Bcm7 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm7 Prisoners: noneMaybe
at "a", I don't know, but this is all part of my anti-orthodox policy, regardless of whether it's strictly "good" or not
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 7:50 pm
by skydyr
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none[hide]This is roughly what I expect. I am vaguely fond of this move and it seems fun, but it's a move that is far from standard. That said, it's not demonstrably bad, nor is it a trick as such... more of a special purpose move. Also, quite a few people haven't dealt with it before, though I would not be surprised if topazg has. If you are curious to hear a bit more about it, Peter Mioch's Gentle Joseki articles cover it a little bit, though he probably doesn't want to admit it.
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: noneI may atari before 7 to climb one line higher, because it's a big point.
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 8:09 pm
by topazg
$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bcm1 Prisoners: none
Interesting move, I've not seen that one before. I was half tempted to go for territory:
$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: noneBut I think that wall is just too big and
could come under serious pressure. I think the push and cut will give a similar result, but with more aji for me to abuse on the lower side as Black will hopefully be less thick.
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:01 pm
by skydyr
$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
Re: #186 - topazg vs. skydyr
Posted: Thu Nov 22, 2012 9:05 pm
by topazg
$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
Maybe something like this perhaps?
$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wcm10 Prisoners: none
at "a", I don't know, but this is all part of my anti-orthodox policy, regardless of whether it's strictly "good" or not 
could come under serious pressure. I think the push and cut will give a similar result, but with more aji for me to abuse on the lower side as Black will hopefully be less thick.