Life In 19x19

I'd be interested in a Big Brother Malkovich, with me as one of the weaker players. Anyone want to join?

I'd also be interested.

Aphelion wrote:I'd be interested in a Big Brother Malkovich, with me as one of the weaker players. Anyone want to join?

I'd be happy to be one of the middle level players in a second one.

I'd love to get in on this. However, where do I fit? I'm 4k, pushing towards 3k ... not THAT much of a difference between me and the Little Brothers. For instance, I don't think my analysis is up to the same level as Joaz ... not to mention my style of play is rather wild. I'd more likely approve most moves and rely on Biggest Brother to correct the most complex ones ... actually, that doesn't sound too bad, if you'll have me.

I was envisioning the skill levels more similar to the current game - mid sdk, shodan level, and high dan. But I think it all depends on us getting people interested

I'm 4k too, so if Marcus wants to play, I could join the other team.
Put a 1d in both teams and we've got a game. No idea how the smaller rank difference affects the game though, so if you want to leave a bigger gap to the big brothers, I don't have a problem with being skipped.

The only thing is that the changes of a 4k player might not sit as well with me with as say, a 1k or 1d player - in my fancies I can play both of you on even terms

Aphelion wrote:The only thing is that the changes of a 4k player might not sit as well with me with as say, a 1k or 1d player - in my fancies I can play both of you on even terms

It's not just a fancy ... I mean, c'mon just LOOK at my stone placement.

But, yes, there should ideally be 4+ stones difference between levels.

Alternatively, ya'all could play and just reduce the cost of changes for the middle brothers. Someone two stones stronger than me can probably see tons of moves worth at least one point.

Its not a matter of points - its so that the Big Brother can authoritatively correct mistakes - which needs at least a 4+ stone gap.

Aphelion wrote:Its not a matter of points - its so that the Big Brother can authoritatively correct mistakes - which needs at least a 4+ stone gap.

I speak as a middle brother when I say no big brother here can correct mistakes authoritatively. Even at the shodan level, there is no "this is definitely wrong, and this is right" knowledge for the majority of corrections. Just as with every other level of play, it's a judgement of "I think this is worth a few more points than that" - that may not be the best move, and they may even be wrong - just because their chance of being correct increases the bigger the rank difference, that doesn't mean it's actually authoritative.

The other thing I would really strongly recommend is that the points system dropped in exchange for the quota system proposed in the initial BB discussion thread. I think the points system makes for some unhelpful and uneducational corrections.

topazg wrote:...
The other thing I would really strongly recommend is that the points system dropped in exchange for the quota system proposed in the initial BB discussion thread. I think the points system makes for some unhelpful and uneducational corrections.

I'd be in favor of experimenting with game #2. Please propose details.

I can't remember the proposal exactly, but I'm not sure I need to as I've experienced playing it since.

My feeling is the middle brother would have 10 changes and the big brother 5 changes. Every change they make takes that tally down by one, and every 5 (or maybe 10?) moves that play without making any changes at all increase it by one again. This way, players are encouraged not to create crazy complicated fights where they change every move that is off target by 2 points.

Still, I'm happy not doing it that way, but I think it would make the judgement of changing a move a lot more thought through than it currently is.

I could also imagine an "hourglass" system where there is no point penalty for changes, but the difference between the number of changes by White players and number of changes by Black players is not allowed to exceed some smallish number.

dfan wrote:I could also imagine an "hourglass" system where there is no point penalty for changes, but the difference between the number of changes by White players and number of changes by Black players is not allowed to exceed some smallish number.

This could get out of hand if the two top players decide to battle it out over the heads of everyone else. The excessess of one would give permission for the excessess of the other. Indeed, even if one had a modicum of restraint, he would not want to see his extra moves wasted by being used in the endgame when the weaker player can find the best moves himself. So the restrained top player whould have an incentive to use his extra plays in the middle game. This then simply allows the unrestrained top player to continue.