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Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 10:54 am
by drmwc
This problem took me two weeks to solve when I was young. So I'll post the answer in about a fortnight's time. Black to play and kill
no ko
.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|..O...X....
$$|O...O.X....
$$|..O...X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:13 am
by speedchase
Cool problem.
my attempt:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$- - - - - - - - - - - -
$$| . . O . . . X . . . .
$$| O 1 . . O . X . . . .
$$| . . O . . . X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . X . . . .
$$| X X X X X X X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

I don't see a way for white to live after :b1:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$- - - - - - - - - - - -
$$| . 2 O . . . X . . . .
$$| O 1 . . O . X . . . .
$$| 5 3 O . . . X . . . .
$$| a 4 b . . . X . . . .
$$| X X X X X X X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

If white starts like this, Black can connect out.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$- - - - - - - - - - - -
$$| . 3 O 6 5 8 X . . . .
$$| O 1 4 . O . X . . . .
$$| . 2 O 9 7 . X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . X . . . .
$$| X X X X X X X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


If white kills black's stones this way, then black can prevent the second eye.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$- - - - - - - - - - - -
$$| . 3 O 7 4 . X . . . .
$$| O 1 5 6 O . X . . . .
$$| . 2 O . . . X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . X . . . .
$$| X X X X X X X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


gosh darnit, ko, back to the drawing board

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:18 am
by Magicwand
i think this might be the only choice for first move..

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|..O.1.X....
$$|O...O.X....
$$|..O...X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


edit: but now i think i am wrong on my first move :)

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:37 am
by Magicwand
after some thought white die no ko..
did i miss anything?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|.2O.1.X....
$$|O4.5O.X....
$$|.3O...X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|.3O21.X....
$$|O4.5O.X....
$$|..O...X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|.4O.1.X....
$$|O..5O.X....
$$|..O...X....
$$|32....X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Wed Jan 02, 2013 11:47 am
by Prodigious
Magicwand wrote:after some thought white die no ko..
did i miss anything?
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|.2O.1.X....
$$|O4.5O.X....
$$|.3O...X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|.3O21.X....
$$|O4.5O.X....
$$|..O...X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|.4O.1.X....
$$|O..5O.X....
$$|..O...X....
$$|32....X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|..O.1.X....
$$|O...O.X....
$$|..O.2.X....
$$|......X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


This one is worth looking at

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 7:15 am
by Magicwand
i spend 30 min and can not find answer to this problem.

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:05 am
by logan
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$----------------------
$$|. . O . 1 . X . . . .
$$|O . . . O . X . . . .
$$|. . O . 2 . X . . . .
$$|. . 3 . . . X . . . .
$$|X X X X X X X . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:09 am
by Alguien
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$----------------------
$$|. . O . X . X . . . .
$$|O . . . O . X . . . .
$$|. 4 O . O . X . . . .
$$|. . X . . . X . . . .
$$|X X X X X X X . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


I don't get it. Seems alive to me. I'm much too weak for this problem, though.

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:19 am
by Alguien
I only see ko everywhere.
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$- - - - - - - - - - - -
$$| . 1 . 3 . . X . . . .
$$| O 2 5 4 O . X . . . .
$$| . . O . . . X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . X . . . .
$$| X X X X X X X . . . .
$$| . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:20 am
by Magicwand
Alguien wrote:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$----------------------
$$|. . O . X . X . . . .
$$|O . . . O . X . . . .
$$|. 4 O . O . X . . . .
$$|. . X . . . X . . . .
$$|X X X X X X X . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . . . .[/go]


I don't get it. Seems alive to me. I'm much too weak for this problem, though.

dead
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$----------------------
$$|. 5 O . X . X . . . .
$$|O . . . O . X . . . .
$$|. 4 O . O . X . . . .
$$|. . X . . . X . . . .
$$|X X X X X X X . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 03, 2013 8:20 am
by jts
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$----------------------
$$|. 5 O . X . X . . . .
$$|O 6 . 7 O . X . . . .
$$|. 4 O . O . X . . . .
$$|. . X . . . X . . . .
$$|X X X X X X X . . . .
$$|. . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

Ninja'd

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Sun Jan 27, 2013 4:32 pm
by drmwc
The correct solution has been posted - well done!

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$------------
$$|..O.1.X....
$$|O...O.X....
$$|..O.2.X....
$$|..3...X....
$$|XXXXXXX....
$$|...........[/go]


3 is the ridiculous looking tesuji that's needed. W has no reply.

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Mon Jan 28, 2013 8:53 am
by SoDesuNe
Let us honour the book "Juseki Burou - Go Seigen Tsumego-shuu by Go Seigen", published by Seibundou Shinkousha, 1995 (ISBN 4-416-79510-6 C0076) for this problem and (in my case) GoGoD, where I took all the details ^^

It's a class A problem and also has a name: "THE SOUTHERN CROSS STAR - Breaking into a solid encampment".

Quite similiar to his Tesuji dictionaries Go Seigen's Tsumego-book has three categories of problems A, B and C. A are of course the hardest.

Re: Difficult tsume go.

Posted: Thu Jan 31, 2013 4:57 pm
by drmwc
That's interesting - I actually learned this problem from Shutai Zhang, who was British Go Champion for a number of years. He studied to be professional when he was young, and this was one of the problems he encountered in his training. (I think it was also in the British Go Journal in the early 1990s.)