Life In 19x19

I'm trying to learn go terms in Mandarin Chinese. The Sensei's Library page http://senseis.xmp.net/?ChineseGoTerms is very helpful for this goal, but there are some simple words that I cannot find there or elsewhere online. Could someone please help out?

I would like to know how to refer to:
1) a stone
2) a string (a strictly connected group of stones, usually small)
3) a group (a loosely connected group of stones)
4) a dragon (a very large string)

On the Sensei's page, I believe it tells how to say stone and dragon, but I would like to know if there are multiple terms for them. There is no word for string, and the only words similar to group are "live group", "dead group" and include more information than I want.

If you know a good reference for this information I would be happy to see it.

Thanks.

Do they actually refer to them as stones? Maybe they call them something like game pieces. My wife always has trouble translating that, I'm not sure why.

SmoothOper wrote:Do they actually refer to them as stones? Maybe they call them something like game pieces. My wife always has trouble translating that, I'm not sure why.

I believe they refer to individual stones as "qi2 zi". Most of the terms on Sensei's Library for group (live group, dead group) use the word "qi2" for the part meaning group. For example live group is "huo2 qi2" and dead group is "si3 qi2". But from the Chinese speakers I've asked, "qi2" is not used to refer to general groups the way I think of a "group". However, most of these people are not avid go players, so I'd really like to get some information from a native Chinese speaker who is also an avid go player.

Is your wife a native Chinese speaker and go player? If so, I'd very much appreciate if you asked her about these terms.

Qi is complicated because it has a lot of meanings - hao qi, for example, means a good move whereas gao qi means a strong player.

A stone is usually referred to as zi. A string can be described as chuan (串). One word for a group is kuai(块). A dragon is long (龙).

It's important to note that we don't usually distinguish between a string and a group in Chinese.

chowder420, what you and illluck said is correct.

Usually, when people talk about a small string (say, fewer than 10 stones),
they use zhe⁴ ji³ ge⁴ zi³ 這幾個子, "these (few) stones," or simply, zhe⁴ ji³ ge⁴ 這幾個, "these (few)."

Usually, when they refer to a huge group (not alive), they say da⁴ long² 大龍, "big dragon" --
if it's small, they don't usually use long² 龍; instead, they use kuai⁴ 塊.

illluck wrote:It's important to note that we don't usually distinguish between a string and a group in Chinese.

Do we do it in English?

(Rules theorists excepted, natch).

chowder420 wrote:

SmoothOper wrote:Do they actually refer to them as stones?

I believe they refer to individual stones as "qi2 zi".

It would be funny to refer to them as stones while saying they "eat"
them. I am interested in the Chinese terminology, but I don't have
any deeper knowledge of the language or Chinese script.
How about the number 2 in "qi2"? Is this just some character which
doesn't show up appropriately on my screen?

Cheers,
Rainer
(GoChild GoRo with 1665236 points)

GoRo wrote:How about the number 2 in "qi2"? Is this just some character which
doesn't show up appropriately on my screen?

No, your computer is displaying it correctly -- it is simply the digit "two".
In Mandarin (Putonghua), there are four tones, denoted by 1,2,3,4.
For example: ma by itself is ambiguous, but
ma¹: mother
ma²: hemp
ma³: horse
ma⁴: scold

( So putonghua is actually pu³ tong¹ hua⁴, and weiqi, Go, is actually wei² qi². )

GoRo wrote:It would be funny to refer to them as stones while saying they "eat" them.)

Yea, it's a little funny.
They are not really being referred to as "stones"; rather, they are referred to as "Go pieces".

I don't know the etymology -- maybe John or others more knowledgeable can help --
I'm guessing the English usage "Go stone" came from the Japanese Go ishi 碁石 ?
Before that, I don't know if the use of ishi 石 for Go pieces came from the Japanese or the Chinese ?

illluck wrote:Qi is complicated because it has a lot of meanings - hao qi, for example, means a good move whereas gao qi means a strong player.

A stone is usually referred to as zi. A string can be described as chuan (串). One word for a group is kuai(块). A dragon is long (龙).

It's important to note that we don't usually distinguish between a string and a group in Chinese.

The "zi" 子 is complicated, because it is amongst other things a general noun suffix. Examples are wife "Qīzi" or 妻子, son "Érzi" 儿子, chopsticks "Kuàizi" 筷子 though in general mostly Chinese words don't have suffixes.

Koroviev wrote:

illluck wrote:It's important to note that we don't usually distinguish between a string and a group in Chinese.

Do we do it in English?

I've never had anyone use 'strings' when talking about go. We've always just used groups.

oren wrote:

Koroviev wrote:

illluck wrote:It's important to note that we don't usually distinguish between a string and a group in Chinese.

Do we do it in English?

I've never had anyone use 'strings' when talking about go. We've always just used groups.

You must not play against string theorists.

EdLee wrote:

GoRo wrote:How about the number 2 in "qi2"? Is this just some character which
doesn't show up appropriately on my screen?

No, your computer is displaying it correctly -- it is simply the digit "two".
In Mandarin (Putonghua), there are four tones, denoted by 1,2,3,4.
For example: ma by itself is ambiguous, but
ma¹: mother
ma²: hemp
ma³: horse
ma⁴: scold

( So putonghua is actually pu³ tong¹ hua⁴, and weiqi, Go, is actually wei² qi². )

But I never understood why it's written "wei²qi²", when it is correctly pronounced: we²iqi². The same with pu³ to¹ng hu⁴a :o It may look more funny but at least you know how to pronounce which letter.

SoDesuNe wrote:But I never understood why it's written "wei²qi²", when it is correctly pronounced: we²iqi².

Please explain?

EdLee wrote:

SoDesuNe wrote:But I never understood why it's written "wei²qi²", when it is correctly pronounced: we²iqi².

Please explain?

Seconded. Note that "ei" is actually one sound, same with "ong".

p.s. Edlee probably didn't want to add unnecessary complexity, but the actual situation is far more ambiguous - there are many characters with different meanings that are pronounced exactly the same (in fact, I'd say that the majority of Chinese characters are homophones). Also, there's also another tone (the neutral tone).