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i should have won!
Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2013 2:28 pm
by KongShou
i thought i did quite good, then i realised that i lost by 11 points, wtf?
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3271
i hope you guys dont mind my posting so much, should i keep it all to one thread?
same with this! i lost by 21 points
http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/download/file.php?id=3272
Re: i should have won!
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:40 pm
by foeZ
It looks like you shouldn't have won to me.
Saying you should have won is like another way of saying "I made a mistake".
Review your game (or let it get reviewed), find the mistake, learn from it. And next time you will win a game like this.
Accepting a loss is much more valuable than you think in terms of growing in strength.
Re: i should have won!
Posted: Sun Jul 07, 2013 10:45 pm
by ez4u
KongShou wrote:i thought i did quite good, then i realised that i lost by 11 points, wtf?
...
[Emphasis added]
See, there's your fundamental mistake (it happens to all of us and is perhaps the greatest weakness of all - overconfidence). Think again!
Re: i should have won!
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 12:59 am
by daal
KongShou wrote:i thought i did quite good, then i realised that i lost by 11 points, wtf?
I just took a look at the end position of game 1, and I can empathize with your feeling. It's hard to tell without counting how big a territory is, and at first glance, black's might appear bigger. Unfortunately, white has already captured 8 stones, and there are 17 more dead ones on the board. If you try shifting the stones around and putting the captured black ones in black's territory, you'll see that white's territory on the bottom edge is indeed quite large in comparison.
Re: i should have won!
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:11 am
by snorri
I'm not sure how you got to play two moves in a row after the self-atari at 245.
I sprinkled a few comments in the game...
(;CA[Windows-1252]GM[1]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]SZ[19]FF[1]EV[ΧÆåÓÑÒêÈü]DT[2013-07-05]
PC[Öйú]PB[ylart1-PC]BR[9 ¶Î]PW[GNU GO]WR[Level 1]KM[0]RE[ÕýÔÚ±ÈÈü£¡]US[˼¼ÑΧÆåÍø]
MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[pd];W[ec];B[pp];W[eq]
(;B[jp]SQ[eq]C[The low marked stone makes this extension less interesting. The usual idea against this crab eyes opening by white (two 5-3s in that orientation) is to approach one of white's corners directly. See variations for common pro responses in this opening.]
;W[qf]
(;B[jd];W[qi];B[pm];W[cd];B[md];W[cp]SQ[qf][qi]C[At this point, I judge white to be already ahead. Every single white stone is working effeciently in terms of taking territory. The black stones, all on the 4th line do not have corresponding moyo potential due to the stable marked white group.]
(;B[gb]MA[dj][cj]C[Too low and too near to white's low, stable enclosure. Also, inconsistent with black's previous high moves. The biggest area is the left side, so a move at one of the marked points is better.]
;W[cj]
(;B[cn]C[Greedy. See variations.];W[hq];B[iq];W[hp];B[jn];W[np]
(;B[nq]C[Usually one does not attach to a weak stone.];W[nn];B[nm];W[rd];B[qc];W[gd]
;B[hc];W[eo];B[en];W[qk];B[ql];W[qq];B[qp];W[pq];B[oq];W[rp];B[ro];W[rr]
(;B[qn]C[T4 is a ko, and for most of the game it is a ko any time you want it.]
;W[pk];B[nk];W[fh];B[gl];W[fj];B[gj]LB[da:A][rc:B]C[I think A and B are bigger endgame points than continuing in the center.]
;W[ig];B[jf];W[ii];B[ij];W[jj];B[jk];W[kj];B[ji];W[kh];B[jh];W[ki];B[jg];W[ll];B[lk]
;W[kk];B[ik];W[mk];B[lm];W[mj];B[kl];W[ml];B[mm];W[nl];B[ol];W[ok];B[nj];W[ni];B[kg]
;W[rc];B[qb];W[ih];B[if];W[gg];B[fk];W[ej];B[ek];W[pr];B[op];W[ms];B[sp]C[Too late to play this now...]
;W[rq];B[sq];W[sr];B[so];W[fb];B[ga];W[cl];B[bo];W[bp];B[fo];W[fq];B[ho];W[lr];B[lq]
;W[rl];B[pl];W[do];B[dn];W[ip];B[io];W[jq];B[kq];W[ir];B[gp];W[kr];B[mq];W[rb];B[ra]
;W[mf];B[le];W[mh];B[pf];W[qg];B[pg];W[gi];B[hj];W[rm];B[qm];W[ph];B[oh];W[oi];B[nh]
;W[qe];B[pe];W[bm];B[bn];W[ng];B[og];W[of];B[ne];W[nf];B[lg];W[mg];B[lh];W[li];B[dl]
;W[dk];B[cm];W[bl];B[am];W[al];B[an];W[ap];B[ge];W[fe];B[fa];W[ea];B[fc];W[eb];B[fd]
;W[ed];B[gc];W[gf];B[he];W[fp];B[hi];W[hh];B[hf];W[gq];B[go];W[oe];B[od];W[me];B[nd]
;W[lf];B[kf];W[mi];B[co];W[hg];B[el];W[rn];B[sn];W[sm];B[qo];W[rk];B[mr];W[ns];B[or]
;W[os];B[km];W[sb];B[ld];W[qd];B[oc];W[sa];B[qa];W[ao];B[nr];B[rh];W[ri];B[oj];W[pj]
;B[qh];W[pi];B[nj];W[si];B[rj];W[sh];B[rg];W[rf];B[sj];W[sg];B[rh];B[bg];W[eg];B[ff]
;W[bi];B[ee];B[df];W[ch];B[cf];W[be];B[dd];W[cb];B[dc];W[db];B[cc];W[bc];B[de];W[bf]
;B[cg];W[fg];B[ce];W[bd];B[af];W[ae];B[ag];W[bb];B[dg];W[dh];B[bh];W[ai];B[ah];B[ab]
;W[ac];B[ba];W[aa];B[ca];W[ab];B[ef]C[Um, that's a self-atari.];B[dj];W[ck];B[di]
;W[ei];B[bj];W[aj];B[bk];B[ls];W[ps];B[dp];W[ep];B[dq];W[dr];B[cq];W[bq];B[cr];W[br]
;B[cs];W[er])
(;B[sp];W[sq];B[rq]C[Black takes the ko first.]))
(;B[nm]C[You could surround on a large scale...])
(;B[pq]C[Or even just defened the corner directly. This does not help white.]))
(;B[ej]C[White would like to play here to complete deep tray shape, so this cap stops that and works better with black's existing high stones.]))
(;B[cj]MA[cg][cm]C[This allows a two-point extension in either direction.]
(;W[cl]C[If white here...];B[cg]C[black can extend here and make a base])
(;W[ch]C[If white here...];B[cm]C[Black can go on this side and make a base.])))
(;B[nc]C[For territory...])
(;B[qh]))
(;B[cd]C[Normal to invade directly. This is the most common idea.])
(;B[cc]C[This approach is also okay.])
(;B[pj]C[It also also fine to make the sanrensei.])
(;B[de]C[If you are scared of difficult variations, this is fine, too.]))
Re: i should have won!
Posted: Mon Jul 08, 2013 3:29 am
by snorri
A few opening comments on the 2nd game:
(;CA[Windows-1252]FF[1]AP[MultiGo:4.4.4]SZ[19]GM[1]EV[ΧÆåÓÑÒêÈü]DT[2013-07-05]
PC[Öйú]PB[ylart1-PC]BR[9 ¶Î]PW[GNU GO]WR[Level 1]KM[0]RE[ÕýÔÚ±ÈÈü£¡]US[˼¼ÑΧÆåÍø]
MULTIGOGM[1]
;B[pp];W[dd];B[dp];W[qd];B[jp];W[qn];B[cf];W[qk];B[dj];W[oc]
(;B[dm]C[I'd prefer to defend in the lower right or double approach the upper left.]
;W[nq]
(;B[mq]C[Better to move out instead, I think.];W[np];B[oq]C[This is a move that's too easily split by white.]
;W[nr]SQ[mq][oq]C[Broken shape. Both sides of black are hurt.];B[mr]TR[np][nq]
[nr]SQ[mq][mr]C[The white triangle group still has more liberties than the black square group, so this move is rather useless.]
;W[mp];B[lp];W[mm];B[lm];W[cq]
(;B[fq]LB[cp:A][dq:B]C[Usual to block at A or B after this invasion.];W[cp];B[co]
;W[fd];B[cd];W[cc];B[bd];W[mk];B[lk]SQ[lk][lm]C[Playing attachments like the two marked moves is too close. If white gets the next move, white can reduce black's liberties.]
;W[lj];B[mj];W[mi];B[nj];W[ni];B[li];W[kj];B[nk];W[lh];B[ml];W[ic];B[pj];W[qj];B[ik]
;W[pi];B[bo];W[er];B[fr];W[dq];B[ep];W[bp];B[ap];W[aq];B[ao];W[br];B[jj];W[ji];B[ii]
;W[jg];B[ig];W[if];B[kk];W[eg];B[dg];W[ef];B[df];W[ih];B[hg];W[hh];B[hi];W[gh];B[gf]
;W[ki];B[fg];W[fh];B[fi];W[gi];B[gj];W[ms];B[ls];W[ns];B[kr];W[oo];B[po];W[pn];B[or]
;W[nn];B[nm];W[rp];B[qq];W[rq];B[rr];W[pr];B[ps];W[mn];B[ln];W[pk];B[om];W[on];B[pm]
;W[qm];B[mc];W[nb];B[me];W[of];B[oj];W[mb];B[dh];W[bc];B[ac];W[ed];B[de];W[sr];B[dc]
;W[db];B[ec];W[cb];B[fc];W[gd];B[gc];W[eb];B[ab];W[hc];B[ba];W[eh];B[ei];W[fs];B[gs]
;W[es];B[hr];W[oi];B[lo];W[bb];B[ad];W[eq];B[fo];W[ca];B[aa];W[pl];B[ol];W[ok];B[nl]
;W[mo];B[qr];W[rs];B[qs];W[os];B[ss];W[ll];B[kl];W[rs];B[ee];W[qp];B[fe];W[id];B[ge]
;W[hd];B[he];W[gg];B[ie];W[hf];B[je];W[kc];B[ke];W[ld];B[le];W[md];B[jd];W[jc];B[nd]
;W[ne];B[lc];W[kd];B[oe];W[pe];B[nf];W[og];B[nc];W[lb];B[mg];W[od];B[ne];W[ff];B[nh]
;W[mh];B[ng];W[oh];B[lg];W[kg];B[kf];W[hj];B[ij];W[fj];B[hk];B[jf];B[pq];W[qo])
(;B[dq])
(;B[cp]))
(;B[oo];W[qq];B[fc]C[Then tenuki \:)]))
(;B[np]SQ[qk]C[Because white added a stone at R9, Q4 was a little weak.])
(;B[fc]C[I think you can also double approach this stone.])
(;B[dn]C[Normally, when reinforcing this shape, the one-point jump is preferred as the corner is more important than the side, but the difference between D6 and D7 may not be important at your level.]))