Life In 19x19

Wouldn't it be great if you could play a game and have a pro looking over your shoulder and after every one of your moves, the pro would suggest a better one? Well, you can! The only catch is that you have to undo your move and play the move the pro suggested. Want to give it a try?

Here's how: Open up a professional game with the SGF viewer of your choice, jump to move 4 and then decide where you would like to move next. Then see what the professional did. If the professional chose a move different than yours, think about why their move was better ( it was). Then do the same with the next move, etc.

Although you might find that the professional tends to be rather tight-lipped, chances are that once you see the their move, the fault of your own reasoning will become self-evident. I've tried this now a few times, and it's astonishing how often, without saying a word, the professional tells me to adhere to the fundamentals and not try something whacky.

I was going to title this "Free Professional Teacher," but I decided I didn't want to tick everybody off.

Guessing next move (or guessing the next three moves) is always a good exercise.

But the way in which the pro move is "better" is often subtle. Sometimes your move is just as good, but would just lead to a different game. Sometimes your move is better! It's actually quite common. What happens is that the pro will play an odd move because he doesn't think the normal move is quite enough. Then other pros will review the game, analyze it death, and then come to the conclusion that the player should have just played the normal move (i.e., your move) and stayed patient.

Unfortunately, your terse pro will not refute your bad moves. Sadly, that's still up to you...

Mh, thats actually a nice idea, gotta try it sometimes.

Maybe you should suggest commented games because in some game moves the pros would have preferred to have played some move other than what they had played in the game.

tchan001 wrote:Maybe you should suggest commented games because in some game moves the pros would have preferred to have played some move other than what they had played in the game.

When pros second guess other pros (albiet with hindsight) they might end up talking more to each other than to you.

Besides that, I think that there's something to be said for looking just at stones, and not at words. In my experience, just seeing a stone played that's different than the one I might have played, is enough to let me hear a voice in my mind's ear of someone stronger than myself. I don't mean this in a supernatural way, but rather that seeing the stone often helps me to recall something that I'd been taught before.

Or maybe I should start drinking less coffee.

Try to find games with slower times to minimize the bad moves the pro's play. Hard to guess when they'll play a timesuji in a blitz game

I also wouldn't worry too much about choosing a better move than the pro. If what they play really doesn't work, the opponent should refute it for you. If neither finds the refutation, it's probably safe for amateurs to play. And of course, if you find an interesting position you think was misplayed, that'd be an excellent topic for discussion here.

As for cases where multiple moves are playable, try to come up with a few candidate moves every turn. It's a good habit to get into anyways, and it lets you differentiate between cases where you waffled between your move and the pro move, and where the pro move was totally unexpected.

If I have always wondered about professionals reviewing a game after a big match. If I had just made silly reading mistake that caused me to lose the game I wouldn't want to review the game right after because I would be frustrated with myself. Or if you are just too tired after the game I wouldn't want to review it either. Are pro players forced to review the game afterwards? Perhaps only in major tournaments or title matches?

You can also use GoGOD's GoScorer software, which lets you guess more than once and keeps track of how well you have done.

Bill Spight wrote:You can also use GoGOD's GoScorer software, which lets you guess more than once and keeps track of how well you have done.

I've used GoScorer quite a bit too, but what I've tended to focus on was guessing the moves the pro made. What I'm suggesting is that the worthwhile part of the exercise might be to think about the moves as corrections to one's own faulty line of thought.

Bill Spight wrote:You can also use GoGOD's GoScorer software, which lets you guess more than once and keeps track of how well you have done.

That was may favorite tool when I was starting and still is for the guessing game (unless I'm using a physical board and trying ignore much of a printed kifu ). I can compare some programs:

GoScorer:

• Windows Only
• Commercial (comes with GoGoD CD)
• Keeps track of percent of guesses correct
• Provides three kinds of hints: quarter board hint, side-to-side hint, and line hint

MultiGo:

• Windows Only
• Free from www.ruijiang.com
• Can tutor one side or both sides
• No hints (except using move tree coordinates to cheat) or success statistics

SmartGo:

• Windows, iPad^*, iPhone^*
• Commercial, get from www.smartgo.com or Apple store for Apple versions.
• Cumulative statistics over multiple games (can be reset as desired)
• Hints and statistics on wrong move, right move with wrong timing, right area but wrong move

Drago:

• Windows only
• Free from www.godrago.net
• Works on game collections
• Keeps number of replays and best guess score for each game
• Can display a "distance to correct move" as a hint

The reason GoScorer is my favorite out of these is that the hint options are just about right. I don't care about cumulative statistics that much because I don't think move guessing is necessarily a great measure of progress.

Unfortunately, I don't know of good Linux programs. It would be cool if eidogo added a guessing feature.

* I am not sure if the iPad and iPhone versions have comparable features for guessing as the Windows version. (Edit: they appear to have it. See smart go site.)

I really like this idea. I wonder if you could take it to the next level and use a database instead of a single game? I don't have kombilo so I'm not sure how practical that is but it sounds like a lot of fun.

P.s. Gokifu has a guessing function with a hotter warmer hint system.

http://www.gokifu.com

snorri wrote:

Bill Spight wrote:You can also use GoGOD's GoScorer software, which lets you guess more than once and keeps track of how well you have done.

That was may favorite tool when I was starting and still is for the guessing game (unless I'm using a physical board and trying ignore much of a printed kifu ). I can compare some programs:

GoScorer:

• Windows Only
• Commercial (comes with GoGoD CD)
• Keeps track of percent of guesses correct
• Provides three kinds of hints: quarter board hint, side-to-side hint, and line hint

MultiGo:

• Windows Only
• Free from www.ruijiang.com
• Can tutor one side or both sides
• No hints (except using move tree coordinates to cheat) or success statistics

SmartGo:

• Windows, iPad^*, iPhone^*
• Commercial, get from www.smartgo.com or Apple store for Apple versions.
• Cumulative statistics over multiple games (can be reset as desired)
• Hints and statistics on wrong move, right move with wrong timing, right area but wrong move

Drago:

• Windows only
• Free from www.godrago.net
• Works on game collections
• Keeps number of replays and best guess score for each game
• Can display a "distance to correct move" as a hint

The reason GoScorer is my favorite out of these is that the hint options are just about right. I don't care about cumulative statistics that much because I don't think move guessing is necessarily a great measure of progress.

Unfortunately, I don't know of good Linux programs. It would be cool if eidogo added a guessing feature.

* I am not sure if the iPad and iPhone versions have comparable features for guessing as the Windows version. (Edit: they appear to have it. See smart go site.)

Kombilo also has a guessing function. It's Python so in theory it runs on anything but getting it to work on OSX is unpleasant.

snorri wrote: I can compare some programs:

You might also add Kombilo.

Platform: Windows, Linux, Mac OS X
Price: Free - but it comes without a database http://www.u-go.net/kombilo/
Guess mode: "If the guess is wrong, it displays a red rectangle; the rectangle is roughly centered at the position of the next move, and the closer your guess was, the smaller is that rectangle. Furthermore the number of correct guesses and the number of all guesses, as well as the success percentage are given."

Darn, ninja'd

I like this game, but it is more fun after the opening, where there are many valid choices (hence, I suppose, the 4 move clause in the OP).

Even in the middle game, though, this game has a weakness: moves can be tested, but not plans.

There may be multiple good moves from a position, but only if your plan and follow up is good can the result work out. Different pros may respond differently in the same situation.

Still, this is the best way that I know for studying games, and allows for you to test your wits against a pro.

Subotai wrote:If I have always wondered about professionals reviewing a game after a big match. If I had just made silly reading mistake that caused me to lose the game I wouldn't want to review the game right after because I would be frustrated with myself. Or if you are just too tired after the game I wouldn't want to review it either. Are pro players forced to review the game afterwards? Perhaps only in major tournaments or title matches?

I have forgotten exactly who, but one of the Japanese pros that I have met told me the reason so many obviously lost games are played out to the bitter end in the NHK Cup and the Ryusei Sen is to avoid/minimize the need to analyze their mistakes on television!