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Two club games from today

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 4:18 pm
by jts
I'm trying to get better at making SGFs and posting games for review. Here are two games I lost today. The first is even, and I get into trouble early. In the second I take two stones, and it takes me longer to get into trouble. :)

Any advice or thoughts?


Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Sun Jul 14, 2013 5:17 pm
by Splatted
Probably way off but here are some thoughts on game 1:

33: I can't see how you can look at this position and think saving the lone stone at B7 takes priority. In the process of saving it you strengthened white considerably, and for it to have any meaning you have to save all your stones anyway, so why not just connect and strengthen all your stones without helping white's?

S7 also seems to be sente and a very important shape move.

41:
The idea of E7 was that if I had no attack on D9, my entire way of playing up to here was ridiculous.


I agree, but I think the reverse is also true to a certain extent; if white can't attack the C6 stones, what is the point of his C7 group? I don't know how closely you looked at G7, but it seems like the best option to me. If white defends the bottom you can probably gain enough strength to play C12 and make it a fight between two weak groups, and if he decides to save his C7 group by attacking C11 you can make it a trade resulting in you both saving your weak groups.

53: I'd just poke on through with G9.
59: G6 seems much better shape here.

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 1:50 am
by quantumf
It's 23 that I find a bit odd. Why not just pull back with a 2 space jump on the third line? Later you can look forward to invading on the bottom area, as white is likely to do something about your largish moyo now, rather than growing/securing the bottom.

Beyond that, what about 29 at C11? This way white also gets a running group (and you're taking more territory). You're a little outnumbered in the middle, but you should be fine.

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:40 am
by jts
Thanks for the suggestions, guys.

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:09 am
by drmwc
Move 45 in the first game:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm45
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O 7 4 . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 6 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O . . . . O X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . O . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I think you can cut on the oustside. This sets up a crane's nest thing, so whilte collapses in the line above (and many other lines as well). SO white needs to abandon the 2 cutting stones:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm45
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . O 2 . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 6 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . 4 . . . , . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X 7 5 X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O O X . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . O X X X . . . . . . . X . X . . . . |
$$ | . O . . . . O . . . . O X . . . . O . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . , . O . . X , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . O . . . . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


However, 52 doens't work - B can bust out of the net. So this is good for black as well.

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 6:43 am
by jts
Thanks, drwmc. That's quite clever!

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 12:03 pm
by lovelove
short review for game 2


Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 4:01 pm
by jts
Thank you, lovelove. Very interesting pespective - not just better reading than mine, but different positional judgment as well.

My view was that I was aiming at having thickness on the right side, so I was anxious to get rid of the cutting points at n13 and o14 by capturing stones. But now that you've said you like emphasizing the top, it's hard to see anything threatening about those cuts!

Btw, "ajious" is my new favorite word.

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Mon Jul 15, 2013 11:23 pm
by Joaz Banbeck
Comments about game 1:

It is late, so my comments may not be tactically sound, but there is interesting stuff about shape and direction.

Overall, I think that C6 was an overplay that got you into trouble. P4 - as your opponent claimed - may have been an overplay too. There is a similarity in the way that you handled both lower corners. You let your groups become heavy in the presence of numerically superior forces, when there were alternatives for lighter play and/or better shape.


Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 1:56 am
by drmwc
Game 2 at the top, there is a nice teusji for black

First of all consider this line:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 Reference
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 8 3 4 O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 5 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 7 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]


Now consider this attachment for black:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 tesuji!
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . X X O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 3 . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]


White has two options. One is similar to the reference diagram:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 tesuji! good for black
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 0 . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 X X O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 3 6 O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 8 7 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . 9 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]


The key point is that white has lost an extra stone in the ladder. This is an unconditional loss for white, losing all types of nice endgame moves relative to the reference diagram.

White can also consider this:


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm1 alternative line
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 6 X X O X . O . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . 4 3 . O X . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . 1 X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$[/go]


Black gets a comfortable position. White's centre group is short of liberties and on the run, and black should get eyes along the top easily enough.

Re: Two club games from today

Posted: Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:35 pm
by jts
Wow, excellent tesuji, Drmwc. It's so nice to see an opportunity to play that sort of wrong-side attachment.

Joaz, thanks for the suggestions. I particularly like the eye-stealing variation at 33.