Life In 19x19

Since the first day of my journey in Go, I've always been interested/fascinated in the theories that surround the opening part of this game. With this topic, I would like to know more about the first few points (excluding the 4-4 star point), such as why some people choose to play 5-4, 3-4, I've even seen some games with the 3-3 point. Along with knowing what benefit these points give you, I would also like to know some strategies surrounding that first decision and maybe even some counter-strategies to deal with each play.

Otake Hideo's "Opening Theory Made Easy" can explain the basic corner moves to you.

When to choose which move is based on your opening strategy, sometimes on the moves played by your opponent and sometimes based on fashion or imitation. There is generally no right or wrong as long as you keep the moves on the third and fourth line and you play consistent to the corner move's direction (see "Opening Theory Made Easy") or to the whole-board-situation.

There are no real counter-strategies to deal with the first four corner moves. There are strategies to certain openings like the Chinese variations, the Kobayashi or San-Ren-Sei and they fill whole books.

Opening strategies will do you no good if you can't follow up with a decent middlegame. I can play an even opening with a 3-dan and resign twenty moves later.

The place to start reading is Sensei's Library:

http://senseis.xmp.net/?FusekiPages pages about the opening
http://senseis.xmp.net/?Joseki pages about specific corner moves

Both very helpful resources. I've heard some good and bad about "Opening Theory Made Easy" but it's still worth a shot. Can't wait to start reading the articles as well. Thanks guys!

I would recommend Yilun Yangs 'Fundamental principles of go', it has (among other things) a fairly thorough explanation of the strengths/weaknesses of the various opening moves, as well as other opening theory stuff; how to choose and approach move, pincer, joseki etc.

That being said, I think 'Opening theory made easy' is also a great book, one that I haven't looked at in quite a while so I can't directly compare without having the books here in front of me.

My overall recommendation would be to get both..

In a nutshell I think ;

3-4 aims to pincer, though against a high approach you can easily take territory.

5-4 takes a side, esp influence

5-3 takes a side more territorially, good pincer options

3-3 takes territory

Opening Theory Made Easy is the way to go. Some people also like "In the Beginning", and there are of course books that provide opening problems which I like.

I also wrote up a post to explain very, very basic ideas about the opening, once upon a time. It may be that you are too advanced for these:

viewtopic.php?p=101488#p101488

I've got both "In the Beginning" and "Opening Theory made Easy", and I think they are both worthwhile.

AKaios wrote:Since the first day of my journey in Go, I've always been interested/fascinated in the theories that surround the opening part of this game. With this topic, I would like to know more about the first few points (excluding the 4-4 star point), such as why some people choose to play 5-4, 3-4, I've even seen some games with the 3-3 point. Along with knowing what benefit these points give you, I would also like to know some strategies surrounding that first decision and maybe even some counter-strategies to deal with each play.

Each point has its own character. However, the differences are subtle. There are more important things to learn at the start of studying the opening, IMO.

TheBigH wrote:I've got both "In the Beginning" and "Opening Theory made Easy", and I think they are both worthwhile.

I second this. Although both deal with the topic "opening", their overlap is surprisingly small. "In the Beginning" was my first book, and it helped me not to feel lost in the beginning. I have heard other people say the same about "OTME". Unfortunately I had the chance to read it when I was already SDK - I wish I had already read it when I was 20-30k - and judging it from the perspective of a mid-SDK it seems a valuable book as well.

Are there any complete strategies for the 5-4 or 3-5? For the 3-4, 4-4, and 3-3, there are books dedicated to the opening strategy. I gather most of the 3-5, 5-4 strategy is geared towards large scale joseki, but it seems there should be more to it, than an addendum on odd openings.

SmoothOper wrote:Are there any complete strategies for the 5-4 or 3-5? For the 3-4, 4-4, and 3-3, there are books dedicated to the opening strategy. I gather most of the 3-5, 5-4 strategy is geared towards large scale joseki, but it seems there should be more to it, than an addendum on odd openings.

The latest version of GoGoD contains over 28,000 even games from the period since 2002 (roughly the 6.5 komi era). These yield us some 114,000 empty corners. We find more than 59,000 first plays on 4-4 and more than 52,000 on 3-4. Then we find about 1,000 on 5-3, about 650 on 3-3, and about 400 on 5-4 (from there we drop down to about 100 for first play on tengen). So even if we find some complete strategy explained for the latter three points (and I've not seen one), we should be aware that they have little general acceptance in actual contemporary professional practice. As always, however, that should not necessarily be an obstacle for us feckless amateurs.

Another part of the opening is 3rd and 4th line.

Something about playing on the third line means you've completed playing at that side in the opening

and 4th line meaning you plan on getting another move in.

Something like that. If someone knows more about this it would be wonderful if they could post more about it. :]

Unusedname wrote:Another part of the opening is 3rd and 4th line.

Something about playing on the third line means you've completed playing at that side in the opening

and 4th line meaning you plan on getting another move in.

Something like that. If someone knows more about this it would be wonderful if they could post more about it. :]

This is one of those topics that always seems more complicated the more I know and learn about it.

As I understand it, one plays on the 3rd line for stability. Stones on the third line are difficult to undermine, and are more oriented towards stabilizing a group on the side or making territory there. Usually, if you have a stable stone on the third line in the opening, that side is relatively small for the opponent compared to a side where you don't.

Stones on the 4th line are too far from the edge to effectively prevent the opponent from playing beneath them. You can't count on the area underneath being territory, and you may not be able to count that space as eyespace either. On the other hand, they're much better positioned for building walls and fighting later on. They are also better at building moyos because of that height, which may seem like a territorial strategy but is actually more of a fighting strategy, daring the opponent to prevent you from just enclosing enough territory to win and solidifying it.

Generally, if you have a group in a relatively open area, you want it to have a mix of stones on the 3rd and 4th lines for a balance, ideally with the 3rd line stones on the outside. In more cramped situations, however, this idea can get thrown out the window depending on the situation. You may need to stay on the 3rd line in order to create eyespace and live, since you are more interested in gouging out an area than making a lot of points there. You may also not have enough space to live, so you play more on the 4th line to reduce, or to attack something on the opposite side of the board.

That said, I am sure there is much more to say about the subject, and I won't guarantee that all my thinking is completely (or even substantially) correct.

We had a thread on exactly this topic not so long ago. Voila: viewtopic.php?p=129790#p129790