A GoChild Question (#1)

saxmaam · Post by **saxmaam** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 5:27 am

It's under <Practice><Basic 900 Pack><Seal In><Question 20>

This module is about encapsulating/isolating your opponent.

The solution wants you to hit string of 4 on the head, then make a string of 3 on the third line. Why not a row of 2?

There is a problem posting the sgf code. The size of the board in GoChild is 11x11, but Eidego doesn't seem to support that size. So the original string of 4 black stones is supposed to be on line 4. Any suggestions how to deal with this?

VincentCB · Post by **VincentCB** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:01 am

If I understand correctly, this is the solution from the website :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . , . . . . . , . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . , . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O 1 3 5 , . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 4 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

You are asking why this doesn't work :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . , . . . . . , . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . , . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O 1 3 . , . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

The problem with

above is that white can cut :

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$B $$ +-----------------------+ $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . , . . . . . , . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . , . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O 1 3 6 , . . | $$ | . . . . . 2 4 5 . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ +-----------------------+[/go]

What happens next? Try to find out by yourself. The continuation is below.

Mike Novack · Post by **Mike Novack** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 7:38 am

saxmaam wrote:It's under <Practice><Basic 900 Pack><Seal In><Question 20>
This module is about encapsulating/isolating your opponent.

The solution wants you to hit string of 4 on the head, then make a string of 3 on the third line. Why not a row of 2?

There is a problem posting the sgf code. The size of the board in GoChild is 11x11, but Eidego doesn't seem to support that size. So the original string of 4 black stones is supposed to be on line 4. Any suggestions how to deal with this?

First, you moved the problem the wrong way to deal with the board size issue. Where the edges are is quite relevant. We can't properly address the original problem because of the direction you moved it relative the edge. That is perhaps the first beginner lesson here, "edges matter".

saxmaam · Post by **saxmaam** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:29 am

Mike Novack wrote:First, you moved the problem the wrong way to deal with the board size issue. Where the edges are is quite relevant. We can't properly address the original problem because of the direction you moved it relative the edge. That is perhaps the first beginner lesson here, "edges matter".

Thanks, Mike. I did know that much. But I don't know what the right way is. So I asked ...

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:33 am

Hi saxmaam, to expand on what Mike said, Go is super specific:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Original question $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$ Your board $$ ----------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . X X X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . O O O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ -----------------------------------------[/go]

The two boards are VERY different -- they have almost no connection to each other!

saxmaam · Post by **saxmaam** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 8:45 am

VincentCB wrote: What happens next? Try to find out by yourself. The continuation is below.

OK, I got it. I ran out a different unfavorable scenario. Thanks for playing this out for me.

xed_over · Post by **xed_over** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:04 am

I love how Vincent just answered his question, while the rest of you chuckleheads just berate him over something he didn't even do, and was out of his control -- if you look at his sgf, it is correct (11x11)

Uberdude · Post by **Uberdude** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 11:47 am

xed_over wrote:I love how Vincent just answered his question, while the rest of you chuckleheads just berate him over something he didn't even do, and was out of his control -- if you look at his sgf, it is correct (11x11)

Mike Novack wrote: First, you moved the problem the wrong way to deal with the board size issue.

And were wrong in the berating...

Bonobo · Post by **Bonobo** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 1:25 pm

OK, so we see that even when nice people try to correct others’ mistakes they sometimes make even larger mistakes … <shrug>

Happens to me all the time

So, can we pls move on instead of rubbing salt in respective wounds?

Peace, Tom

Mike Novack · Post by **Mike Novack** » Sat Mar 08, 2014 3:57 pm

I am sorry if I wasn't being clear enough.

I was trying to say that compared to any mistake in play with the given formation (with any particular formation) the mistake in not realizing that relocating several spaces away from the edge might (would) completely change the problem was more serious for a beginner. I was not referring to a mistake in the mechanics of trying to present the problem to us.

saxmaam · Post by **saxmaam** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 4:24 pm

Mike Novack wrote:I am sorry if I wasn't being clear enough.

I was trying to say that compared to any mistake in play with the given formation (with any particular formation) the mistake in not realizing that relocating several spaces away from the edge might (would) completely change the problem was more serious for a beginner. I was not referring to a mistake in the mechanics of trying to present the problem to us.

Mike, I totally realized the problem with the relocation. I was asking for help with that. I still am. Take a look at the original post.

Anyway, I think we are beating a dead horse here. I appreciate any and all sincere attempts to be helpful.

Best regards,

Susan

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:16 pm

Hi Susan, if a certain board size doesn't work here, like 11x11, you can try another board size, like 13x13:

I just tested and found out these are currently not supported here: 11x11, 15x15, 17x17.

9x9 is supported here, but for this particular situation, 9x9 is too small:

saxmaam · Post by **saxmaam** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:22 pm

EdLee wrote:Hi Susan, if a certain board size doesn't work here, like 11x11, you can try another board size, like 13x13

There's a thought. But doesn't the presence of the corner affect the solution to this particular problem?

EdLee · Post by **EdLee** » Sun Mar 09, 2014 5:24 pm

saxmaam wrote:But doesn't the presence of the corner affect the solution to this particular problem?

Yes, good question. Exactly. For this particular shape, 9x9 is too small.

Susan, here is a somewhat related shape. Maybe you have already seen this joseki --

-- In this 3-3 joseki, notice

-- it has a lot of similarity to the solution move of the original shape you posted.

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