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Offline yoyoma
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #221 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:51 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
If he is going to go territory grabbing, he should have played the dual sente move at G11 first, then grabbed the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . O X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . X O X . X . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X . O . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . X X O X X . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X X . X . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . 2 . O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X O O X . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]




Double sente? But when white played in that area black tenukied! So I think it is only Black's sente. It's not clear Black should use it though because it eliminates the possibility of saving the stones outright. So Black moving there could be aji-keshi.

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Offline yoyoma
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #222 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 10:55 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
There are two big plays on the board, and two medium-sized ones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoners captured: :w2: :b3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X ? ? ? . . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . O X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . X O X . X . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X . O . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . X X O X X . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X X . X . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . ? ? . . . . . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . X O O X . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . ? O O O X X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O ? ? X X . . X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X O . X . . . ? O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . ? ? ? . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


The upper left is a double sente worth about 15 points.

The lower right ( S2 by white lives! ) is big...it is hard to count...maybe 25-30 points to the first player. It is dual gote.

The lower left - connecting or disconnecting my stones - is also around 25-30 points, and also gote for both.

The middle - where I played - is worth maybe 20 points...but is also hard to count. It is hard to say if it is sente or gote when I play it. The PITA is that it is big sente for him.


Another strange comment about double sente. If the upper left is really double sente, then white should play there in sente, and then play in the middle next, in order to get both.

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Offline yoyoma
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #223 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:04 am 
Lives in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm80 Prisoners captured:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . O . O O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . a O X . X . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . . . . . . O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . . . . b . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . . . . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . X O O X . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . . . . X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . . . . . . O X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


Will you play 'b' on this board? Probably you would think it's too deep. What if I told you there was a 5 point bonus if you could prevent 'a' from being white's territory? Oh a 5 point bribe isn't enough?

The 5 stones in the 'a' area are garbage stones, and as garbage stones should have very little effect on where you choose to play next.

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This post by yoyoma was liked by 2 people: Chew Terr, Joaz Banbeck
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #224 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:08 am 
Judan
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Good game, guys.

I also had the impression that Chew was distracted toward the end of the game.
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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #225 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 11:34 am 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Topazg, MW, Ed, Loons, and others: Thanks for the comments. I must go back and read them at some length.


I'm sorry, I didn't offer many useful comments - good game to you both though!

Joaz Banbeck wrote:
@Violence:
Violence wrote:
Am I the only one who thinks Joaz's sequences range from decent to normal to completely insane?

Sometime we must find out if you can play well enough to back up comments like that. :)


2-0 against magicwand in even Malkovich games is pretty good evidence I'd have thought ;)

That said, I'd love to see you play him too!

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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #226 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:01 pm 
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yoyoma wrote:
Joaz Banbeck wrote:
There are two big plays on the board, and two medium-sized ones.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm91 Prisoners captured: :w2: :b3:
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . ? ? ? . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X ? ? ? . . . . . O . . . O O . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . . O . O X O O O X X . |
$$ | . . X X O . . . . , . . . X O X . X . |
$$ | . . X O . O . . . X . O . X O X X . . |
$$ | . . X X O O . . . . . . . X X O X X . |
$$ | . . O O X O . . X X . X . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . O X X . . . . O O . . O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . X . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . ? . . . . . . O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . ? ? . . . . . O . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . . X . . . . O . X O O X . O . |
$$ | . . . X . . ? O O O X X . X O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . O ? ? X X . . X X O . X . . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . O . . X O . X . . . ? O X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . ? ? ? . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -------------------------------------[/go]


The upper left is a double sente worth about 15 points.

The lower right ( S2 by white lives! ) is big...it is hard to count...maybe 25-30 points to the first player. It is dual gote.

The lower left - connecting or disconnecting my stones - is also around 25-30 points, and also gote for both.

The middle - where I played - is worth maybe 20 points...but is also hard to count. It is hard to say if it is sente or gote when I play it. The PITA is that it is big sente for him.


Another strange comment about double sente. If the upper left is really double sente, then white should play there in sente, and then play in the middle next, in order to get both.


Big sente for him; rather small for me. If I play it, he can tenuki and take something bigger.
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Offline Magicwand
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #227 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:15 pm 
Judan
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topazg wrote:
2-0 against magicwand in even Malkovich games is pretty good evidence I'd have thought ;)

That said, I'd love to see you play him too!


2-1 is correct. :)

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Offline Chew Terr
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #228 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 12:53 pm 
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Thank you all for your insightful comments. Reading through this thread is... really humbling. Hopefully I can study and learn from it, but it's still hard to watch yourself get crushed.

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Offline topazg
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #229 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:22 pm 
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Magicwand wrote:
topazg wrote:
2-0 against magicwand in even Malkovich games is pretty good evidence I'd have thought ;)

That said, I'd love to see you play him too!


2-1 is correct. :)


I apologise magicwand, you are quite right :) I must have been thinking about my own defeats or something ;)

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Offline Violence
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #230 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:24 pm 
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Sure, Joaz, just after I clean off my own plate... I'm planning to move in my other Malkovich tonight.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #231 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:56 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
Big sente for him; rather small for me. If I play it, he can tenuki and take something bigger.
I would have thought this is a way of saying "sente for him, not sente for me".

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Offline EdLee
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Post #232 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 1:59 pm 
Oza
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Thank you, guys; I learned from this thread. :study:

This post by EdLee was liked by: Chew Terr
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Offline Kirby
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #233 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 4:55 pm 
Judan
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Chew Terr wrote:
Thank you all for your insightful comments. Reading through this thread is... really humbling. Hopefully I can study and learn from it, but it's still hard to watch yourself get crushed.


Hopefully you don't feel down, Chew. I think I can understand your feeling to some degree having been crushed, myself. Actually, I think you did really well for the first part of the game, so I wouldn't feel bad about anything, really.

I'd suggest playing another Malkovich games. After getting crushed time after time, it hurts a little less.

Well, maybe not... :-D I am still humiliated from time to time, but... I guess that's the way the game goes.

In any case, please don't feel upset about the game. You were rockin' until the last bit! :tmbup:

This post by Kirby was liked by: Chew Terr
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Malkovich 104 - Joaz vs Chew Terr
Post #234 Posted: Wed May 04, 2011 8:15 pm 
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Violence wrote:
Sure, Joaz, just after I clean off my own plate... I'm planning to move in my other Malkovich tonight.


No rush; the honeydo list is long.
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