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Offline Novbert
 Post subject: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help needed
Post #1 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:17 am 
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Hi All,

I've just started to play go recently and I've started to go through Cho Chikun's Elementary Encyclopedia of Life and Death but I've found some problems which doesn't look solvable.
Any help would be appreciated.

Supposedly all of them should be solved by black playing first, but Problem 81 looks like this:



As I see neither '1' nor '2' helps black - '1' leaves him with two false eyes, while '2' leads to only a single real one.
Am I missing something or is there an error here?

The other one is a bit more tricky (problem #97 in the same book):



Black has to play at '1' or '2' to prevent white from playing at '1' immediately. In any of those cases White can play at 'A', giving atari in both cases. Eventually black can't survive in the corner (mostly due to that marked white stone), so can't kill white.
The question is the same: Is this tsumego really flawed or am I missing something?
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Offline HermanHiddema
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #2 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:41 am 
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In the first one, option 1 makes ko.

In the second one, you need to play 1-1 at move 3
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Offline Novbert
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #3 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 1:09 am 
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HermanHiddema: Thank you! It really works :)
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #4 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 4:49 am 
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Novbert wrote:

I've just started to play go recently ...

The question is the same: Is this tsumego really flawed or am I missing something?


I think it's more likely to be the later, than Cho Chikin 9 dan pro made a mistake. :D
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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #5 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 5:58 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Novbert wrote:

I've just started to play go recently ...

The question is the same: Is this tsumego really flawed or am I missing something?


I think it's more likely to be the later, than Cho Chikin 9 dan pro made a mistake. :D

Take a look at Cho's intermediate problem #344 and let us know what you think

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . O X X O O . . . . .
$$ | . X . X X O X X O . . . .
$$ | . O X X O O . . O , . . .
$$ | . O O O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . .[/go]

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Offline Novbert
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #6 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:17 am 
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Uberdude wrote:
Novbert wrote:

I've just started to play go recently ...

The question is the same: Is this tsumego really flawed or am I missing something?


I think it's more likely to be the later, than Cho Chikin 9 dan pro made a mistake. :D


Good point, but the pdf files I'm using were generated from Cho problems and went through a lot of transformation - so I though that maybe that process was the source of the issue. Good to know it's not the case.
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Offline illluck
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #7 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 10:33 am 
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@tchan: Note the use of "more likely", there's no claim of infallibility.
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Offline Joaz Banbeck
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #8 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 12:46 pm 
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If we can't even spell his name correctly, I doubt we're going to catch him in a mistake. :mrgreen:

This post by Joaz Banbeck was liked by: illluck
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Offline Uberdude
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #9 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 2:42 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
If we can't even spell his name correctly, I doubt we're going to catch him in a mistake. :mrgreen:


Darn iPhone keyboard!
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Offline tchan001
 Post subject: Re: Unsolvable tsumegos in Cho's elementary book? - Help nee
Post #10 Posted: Thu May 10, 2012 7:40 pm 
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Joaz Banbeck wrote:
If we can't even spell his name correctly, I doubt we're going to catch him in a mistake. :mrgreen:

Actually we have in caught a mistake in an old GD thread which I made into an sgf for myself earlier. Enjoy Advanced prob #36



Answer in sgf form hidden if you don't want to see it

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