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Offline SuprunP
 Post subject: White not capturing the group
Post #1 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 3:56 am 
Dies in gote
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Hello everyone!
I'm new to the game and to the forum actually, so, my abject apologies if my topic is in the wrong section.

The answer to the question I'm just about to ask may be right over my head, but I'd still like you to shed some light on the following:
Why didn't White capture the group of black stones by playing n8 at his 70th move?



Thanks.
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Offline hyperpape
 Post subject: Re: White not capturing the group
Post #2 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 4:18 am 
Oza

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KGS: MssrBlanc 2k
DGS: Hyperpape 5k
OGS: Hyperpape 7k
If Black plays at S2 instead of White, then the White group will die. If White plays at P1, then Black plays at R1, if White plays at R1, then Black plays at P1.

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When you think your opponent has made a mistake, that's when you should be the most cautious.

This post by hyperpape was liked by: SuprunP
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Offline blade90
 Post subject: Re: White not capturing the group
Post #3 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 8:54 am 
Lives with ko

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Just as hyperpape said if Black plays S2 the white group will die.
I will go into more detail here:

If white captures at 1 he will get 5 stones (10 points).
But Black will kill the white group (marked), that are 9 stones + a few points in the corner. It's about double the value of white 1.
For that reason capturing with 1 is too small (taking 10 points by giving your opponent 20+ points).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Move 70
$$ ---------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . O . . O . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . O . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . X O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O T T O . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . O T T T O . X . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . O . O O X X X X X . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . X X W W W X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . X X O . X . X W . W X . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . X . . X W W W W 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X 3 . 4 . . |
$$ ---------------------------------------[/go]


I hope this answers your question.

This post by blade90 was liked by: SuprunP
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Offline EdLee
 Post subject:
Post #4 Posted: Mon May 14, 2012 11:35 am 
Oza
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blade90, SuprunP,
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W Move 70
$$ . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . , . . . . . , X . . |
$$ . . . . . . . . O O X . . |
$$ . . . . . . 1 O B B O . . |
$$ . . . . . O B B B O . X . |
$$ . . . . . . O O O O . . . |
$$ . . . O . O O X X X X X . |
$$ . . . , . X X W W W X . . |
$$ . X X O . X . X W . W X . |
$$ . . . X . . X W W W W 2 . |
$$ . . . . . . . X 3 . 4 . . |
$$---------------------------[/go]
blade90 wrote:
It's about double the value of white 1.
There's more subtlety. The value of :w1: is not only the five :bc: stones -- the resulting powerful W shape also has value.
Moreover, :w1: is sente -- :b2: is gote. And blade90 only played :w3: and :b4: to show SuprunP that :wc: is dead --
in reality W would not waste a ko threat by playing :w3: immediately after :b2:.

This post by EdLee was liked by 2 people: blade90, SuprunP
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