DeepZenGo thread

[Uberdude]

Win/Lose
Even games
134/144

I presume you mean Win/Played not Win/Lose?

[pookpooi]

Win/Lose
Even games
134/144

I presume you mean Win/Played not Win/Lose?

my mind slip for a bit

[Shenoute]

From Deepzen's games played on Tygem today. First a win against XIUZHI (Park Junghwan) in which Park used the same opening with which he scored a win (posted earlier in this thread) but Zen deviated on move 16 (in the previous game he had played at K18). For what it's worth, in this game I find the whole sequence starting with w66 (D7) quite painful for black.


The second one is Zen's only loss on equal terms so far today, against elapsdays, not a name I remember having seen earlier. Elapsedays played another game against Zen later today and lost (edit. I got the name wrong in the sgf file).


Finally, CHAH played again on two stones and won, as he did last time (posted earlier in this thread).

[johnsmith]

So far DeepZenGo vs Park 4:1
In one game someone said that elapsedays was FineArt, but it's not confirmed.

[Shenoute]

So far DeepZenGo vs Park 4:1
In one game someone said that elapsedays was FineArt, but it's not confirmed.

Hmm, interesting. Elapsedays played again against Deepzen just now but lost, so it's 1W-2L between them. I haven't followed FineArt (it's playing on Foxy no?), how is it doing against pros?

[pookpooi]

Hmm, interesting. Elapsedays played again against Deepzen just now but lost, so it's 1W-2L between them. I haven't followed FineArt (it's playing on Foxy no?), how is it doing against pros?

Since August FineArt force give 2-4 stones handicap and able to maintain >70% winrate several hundreds games, I think they're preparing for handicap event already. I haven't gone through all games but I'd love to see how FineArt deal with mirror go when it gives handicap stones.

[Shenoute]

XIUZHI (Park Junghwan) won a second game against Deepzen. As far as I know, he is the only one to have done it so far (that is, since Deepzen came back on October 20th). Here is the game,


Also noteworthy is the win against JinGu. It is a short game (80 moves!) and feels like a master class on attacking (and killing). Black might have been a bit trigger happy when he launched his attack with moves 39 to 45 but White's answer makes for a really nice sequence (46, letting black capture a stone after 67,...).


CHAH played again on two stones but resigned after less than 100 moves. I am of course in no position to criticize pro games nevertheless I can't help but find the beginning of the game not really interesting for b. Having his group on the right side live so small, in gote, while giving w this nice outward looking position...It reminded me of 9-stone handicap games, where w plays his first three moves around one of the b hoshi on the side and threatens to swallow it. The standard advice for b being to get out and not to try and live small locally because w becomes too strong on the outside.

[pookpooi]

Hmm, interesting. Elapsedays played again against Deepzen just now but lost, so it's 1W-2L between them. I haven't followed FineArt (it's playing on Foxy no?), how is it doing against pros?

Since August FineArt force give 2-4 stones handicap and able to maintain >70% winrate several hundreds games, I think they're preparing for handicap event already. I haven't gone through all games but I'd love to see how FineArt deal with mirror go when it gives handicap stones.

I've time so I count latest FineArt games, 100 games in each handicap caterogy (50 from each two accounts) except H4 game I only count 50 because too few games and if I scroll down further it'll be before October which might be an older version of FineArt.
H2 games 78% winrate
H3 games 65% winrate
H4 games 44% winrate (22/50)
And this is not quick time setting magic trick, most games are play on ranging from 20 to 60 minutes main time with 3 to 10 periods of 60 seconds byoyomi, significantly longer than DeepZen on Tygem that has 10 minutes main time with 3 periods of 30 seconds byoyomi.
BTW latest DeepZen winning stats are
(Win/Total)
Even games 175/187
H1 games 5/5
H2 games 2/4
Winrate (Even + H1 games) = 93.75%
Again, if anyone can find mirror go handicap games with FineArt or DeepZen please post here.

[Shenoute]

Thanks for the detailed statistics! These are impressive (although on second thought I guess not all these are against pros).

[johnsmith]

Thanks all, I'm really enjoying all these games and stats. I'll post when I find out something interesting.

[johnsmith]

I have a reason to believe that DeepZenGo is trained on Chinese rules, no matter what the ruleset on the internet. On Tygem and WBaduk it plays in Japanese rules, but I think Zen is not aware of that. Reason? We know that Zen always resigns if it is losing. Though, in the game it played today it lost by 0.5 points (Japanese rules), but in Chinese rules it would be 1.25 point win by Zen. This is the game:


Does anyone have more info on this?

[pookpooi]

Zen's new bug?

Now let's recap stats on Zen 15.4
Even games (Win/Total)
202/216
H1 games
5/5
H2 games (all against CHAH)
3/5
The last game of this count is against HopeIdo(P) no. 983846287

Then I notice that Zen stop playing for a couple of hours, so I check CGOS and see Zen has new version (15.5) just start to play on there.
After that Zen resume playing in Tygem, so I suspect it's the new version. However, it comes with problem
Its first game was against Circle(P) that result in lose with 0.5 point which is very strange consider that all v15.4 games Zen has only one lose game by point (2.5, against Tutu) and Circle(P) had already played 6 games with Zen and never won. At the end game Circle(P) request count and Zen agree with the count. After this game Zen is offline again.

[johnsmith]

Zen has new version (15.5)
and Circle(P) had already played 6 games with Zen and never won. At the end game Circle(P) request count and Zen agree with the count.

It's a seki and it's a very close game, too. They agreed that those seki groups were alive. But Chinese rules differ on this compared to Japanese.
I haven't seen all their games, but my guess is that there was no seki.

All Tygem games were 15.4, not 15.3? There was 15.4 on CGOS before it started playing on Tygem?

[Shenoute]

Zen's two most recent losses (since the games were still available in the game tab, I didn't have to replay them this time). Jujiang is An Sungjoon 8p.
Zen's four losses on even since the change of version mentioned earlier by pookpoi have all been with him playing black.

[Simba]

Here is a very short game (111 moves) won today by XIUZHI(P).

^ lol, move 45...