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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #21 Posted: Mon Mar 25, 2013 9:33 pm 
Gosei

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I've been using Herman Hiddema's new diagrammer lately, and it doesn't seem to have support for that. I'll ask him to add it.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Let's keep trying something different. If white plays P17 this will revert back to my previous variation. This may also follow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . B O 3 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . 4 X 2 O O 7 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . 1 X X 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 0 8 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


and the white's cutting stones look rather weak and lonely.

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #22 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 1:59 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


After some thought, I've decided to play passively connect on the second line. When compared to the standard 33 invasion results, it seems I've done slightly worse as the next 2 diagrams show assuming things go as I expect.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . 3 X . O O 6 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X 4 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]



Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 4 2 . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . 5 3 1 O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 9 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Although I've done slightly worse then I expected, I couldn't find any concrete ways to exploit his weaknesses.


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm19
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . X 2 O O 8 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . 3 4 X X 6 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . 7 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Although this looks promising, I'm not convinced I can use the aji to accomplish anything. If I can't, I'll simply end up giving him more thickness for a smaller corner. I'd probably play this out if I felt behind, but I'm feeling ok right now so I'll live to fight another day. As for where I'll play next, I'm hoping to get sente and play at D10. He's got a lot of thickness, but no one move will convert it all to points and I'd prefer to sort the rest of the board out before I figure out how to reduce him.

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #23 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 10:50 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . 1 X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


After some thought I decided that I like this variant better:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm22
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . B X b O O 3 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . a X X 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . c . . 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . d 4 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


(a-b-c-d leads to the position discussed earlier)

than this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 5 . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . 3 2 X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . 4 . 1 X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #24 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:51 pm 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . 1 X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm still liking D10 as my next move. After we finish up in the corner I'm expecting something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm21
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . 1 X . O O 4 . |
$$ | . . 7 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 3 . |
$$ | . . 8 . . . . . . . . . . . . . 5 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 6 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #25 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:54 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #26 Posted: Tue Mar 26, 2013 9:58 pm 
Dies in gote

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That was fast :lol:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O 2 . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #27 Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:16 am 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
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Likewise :clap:

(it was also easy, and of course either of us could have used a trigger for these couple of moves)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The corner is now more or less settled. I didn't get sente, and the end result is very similar to the "standard" joseki: I have a hole in my wall, but it isn't bad. White got sligthly bigger corner, but OTOH I blocked the upper side. Now the continuation depends on what my opponent chooses to do with his sente, but I have my eye on these points (in counterclockwise order):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm23
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . b . O . a . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . c , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . d e . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . f . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . h . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . g . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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Offline
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #28 Posted: Wed Mar 27, 2013 9:58 am 
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Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm25
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm a little bit worried about this move. Giving my opponent lots of influence and then tenuking doesn't seem like a winning strategy, but in this case the move I'm playing is huge, and I can't afford to fall behind since that will then force me to invade deeper than I should.

As far as this move in particular, I like it because it extends nicely from my 44 stone and if he approaches my 53 stone, it will be positioned nicely to help a pincer stone. I also like this move because if he does choose to ignore it and play on the right, I have a great followup at C16.

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #29 Posted: Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:18 pm 
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As I start to write this post, I have no idea what I should do. Thanks to Herman Hiddema's excellent diagram editor, I intend to do what Malkovich is supposed to be all about: think about it, explain my thoughts and finally (hopefully) come to a decision

These are the points I consider:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . a . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . b , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . c . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . e . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . d . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Lets discuss them one by one:

If I play a) this is one possible followup:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . 1 . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 7 . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . 3 . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I wrote earlier that "if white wants to have his shimari, he can have it". This is no longer true, since he got to D10 before me. Now I'm not too happy about letting him have his shimari. It's not a disaster, but it works too well with his D10-stone. So, lets look at preventing it:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Now white will most likely play a) or b) and I have no idea how to continue. If I choose this path, I will have to consult a lot of books/databases to decide the best path. OTOH, I'm here to learn, so that's not a bad thing.

Then c):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 1 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . 4 . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I don't like this option, since D10 prevents me from making a nice extension. I will not consider this further.

d):

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . 7 . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 6 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 5 , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . 1 . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . 3 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is very likely to lead to a similar situation as a)

e): Much depends on how white will respond. If he chooses to make a double wing formation around lower left corner, I might be able to invade, get sente and then invade the upper left corner before he makes his shimari:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 O . . . . . , . 1 . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 3 5 6 8 0 . . 2 . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . 7 9 . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 5 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . 1 O O . . . . . , . X . . X X X . . |
$$ | . 3 X X O O O . . O . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . X X . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


after which I'm facing the same problem as after b). However, he may also choose to make his shimari immediately, and something like this might follow:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . 1 . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 2 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . 0 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . 4 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . 7 . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . 6 . . 3 . . . . 8 . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . 5 . . . . 9 . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . X . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . O , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . X . . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . O . . X . . . . O . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This doesn't look too bad for me, either.

After all, my conclusion is to take the plunge into the unknown and see what happens:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


He may also choose something like this:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . W . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


but lets worry about it if it happens...

_________________
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 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #30 Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 11:00 am 
Dies in gote

Posts: 60
Liked others: 2
Was liked: 0
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm27
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . 1 , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I just need to keep my top stone from dieing and I'm pretty sure this will go well for me.

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 Profile  
 
Offline
 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #31 Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 1:53 pm 
Gosei

Posts: 1348
Location: Finland
Liked others: 49
Was liked: 129
Rank: FGA 7k GoR 1297
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

I'm hoping for something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wc
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . b . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . a c . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . 2 . d . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O B . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 3 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


after which I could put some pressure on E17 with a, b, c or d

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Post #32 Posted: Fri Mar 29, 2013 5:58 pm 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm29
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . B . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . a b . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . W . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


The normal joseki move would be the hane at b rather than extending at a, but that does not take into account the marked stones for black or white. The existence of the marked white stone means that I don't need to fear my two stones being attacked after he fixes his cut, and the marked stone for black means that if I let him fix his cut and then give him sente my upper stone will likely die. As a result of this, I don't think b is playable which leaves a as the best move available that I can see.

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Post #33 Posted: Sat Mar 30, 2013 1:16 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I was afraid he might do something like that. I suspect he will extend to H7 next, in which case I may try something like this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 2 4 W . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . 1 3 . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 5 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #34 Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:13 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm31
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . 2 . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . . . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


This is where things get really complicated. Ideally, I'll be able to use the weakness of his leftmost group to settle my upper group in sente. Then, I can play somewhere around tengen to help negate his influence. Assuming this goes as planned, I'll be very happy with this game.

On a more general note, the outcome of this game seems like it will come down to a fight in the center where I will be tasked with keeping his center from growing too large. At this point, my opponent and I have already traded territory for influence multiple times and I have taken territory on every occasion. I'm not sure how strong players would evaluate the board right now, but I know that I personally would much prefer playing as white as things are. The frustrating thing about taking influence for territory is that it forces you to find a way to profit from your influence later while your opponent already has his profit solidified immediately after the trade. Overall, I find dealing with the difficult task of reducing the center where he is strong less frustrating than trying to profit in the center and make use of my influence.

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Post #35 Posted: Mon Apr 01, 2013 1:59 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . 1 . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


As expected. I believe he has to answer this, but let's see.

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Post #36 Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 12:03 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm33
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O 2 . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . 1 . . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


When nothing jumps out at me I'll usually just play the simple move.

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Post #37 Posted: Tue Apr 02, 2013 9:48 am 
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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X 1 . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm not sure what I'll do next, but I'm still thinking about this:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm36
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O 1 O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X B . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . 2 . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . a . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


Now he can take a big point at e.g. a), but I still like my situation.

I think I can take upper left corner in sente:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm39
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 5 1 4 . . . . a . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . 3 2 O O O O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X . . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . O . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


White needs a) or similar to secure life, I think. Another option is to invade his lower left corner, which will probably be my sente as well. But, let's see after he has moved.

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #38 Posted: Thu Apr 04, 2013 10:48 am 
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Sorry about taking so long to post this move.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm35
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X 1 2 . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm not sure about this move, but I've already taken long enough. I plan to live with C18 if he blocks, but I want to create as many weaknesses as possible before I go back and live.

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Post #39 Posted: Fri Apr 05, 2013 9:34 am 
Gosei

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


That was a good response by white, and I don't particularly enjoy it. Locally this is the obvious move, and since I couldn't find any terrible flaws in it, and since I don't think tenuki is good right now, I will play it.

I thought about this too, but while probably safer, it also leaves a bigger gap in my potential wall:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


I'm not overly happy with the recent turn of events, but on the whole I still think I'm doing ok.

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 Post subject: Re: #211 Adanux vs. tj86430
Post #40 Posted: Sat Apr 06, 2013 11:42 pm 
Dies in gote

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Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm37
$$ +---------------------------------------+
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . 2 . . . . . . . . . X O O . . . . |
$$ | . . . . O O . O . . . . X X . O O O . |
$$ | . . X , . X X O . X . . . . . X X O . |
$$ | . . . X . . . 1 . . . . . . . . . X . |
$$ | . . O X . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . |
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . X X X . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . O O O . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ +---------------------------------------+[/go]


A vital point that allows either black or white to live in the corner.

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