A beginner's journal of little interest

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Sun Jun 03, 2012 1:35 pm

Thanks Ed. I know I'm distinctly unaware of shape at the moment, thanks for the help.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Mon Jun 04, 2012 7:19 pm

jts wrote:
Boidhre wrote:I'm posting this as I think this is an easy mistake for beginners to make and I hope it is helpful for others.

I'm glad you're trying it the other way. Tell us if your reading improves.

When I first encountered tsumego I thought the point was to stare at impossibly hard problems until your brain hurt, and then look at the answer and be startled by the clever solution. (Sort of like the Saturday crossword.) Later I encountered the suggestion that I should read out every problem completely within a few minutes; that I should only look at the solution once I was confident I hadn't missed any variations; and, if I was struggling with this, that I should find easier problems. I immediately enjoyed doing the problems more and saw the fruits of strengthened reading in my games.

Not that there's anything wrong with looking at problems for amusement. And there are players who are staunch champions of the solution diagram. But I think it's hard to know what solving a tsumego really feels like until you've tried being thorough!

My reading has been improving.

I've been enjoying problems more with being more thorough with reading them out though admittedly I often don't have the patience to read one out fully if the answer is relatively obvious and the alternative first moves are very uninteresting

I've been enjoying the tesuji problems in Get Strong at Tesuji a lot. They're giving me a chance to find new kinds of moves in problems and now, around problem 200, I'm finding the two star problems relatively easy though the odd one still throws me and takes quite a while to solve. I'm definitely spotting new moves in my games and considering moves that I wouldn't have considered before so I think this book is quite beneficial. I wish the penny had dropped sooner about this but eh, at least it dropped and at least my reading is improving.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 3:11 am

Do I need to care about joseki? I won a game and got to 12k but I didn't know the joseki for a 33 invasion into a single encosure hoshi. Or at my level can I just fight instead. Since most of my opponents seem as clueless as me about joseki.

In other news, Get Strong at Joseki One and Two star problems going well, I'm being lazy about Speed Baduk 7 but I hope to get some of it done today.

bakekoq · Post by **bakekoq** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 5:37 am

hmm.. I'm showing u 2 of the variant that I know (absolutely there are a lot of anothers out there). at the left, is a peaceful answer and it's the common answering. white only get 2nd and 1st line territory, but black can make good wall there and bigger territory even though it depends on board situations.
the key point is this: "direct ur opponent's stone to ur strong wall, so U can kill it later" by Kim Mong Dyung 6p. U need to see ur stones at which side. ok?

So, for the 2nd variant is next move for black at (do you know where?)? just look at the board and u'll know it. I'll response again after ur answer.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 6:42 am

bakekoq wrote:
Boidhre wrote:Do I need to care about joseki? I won a game and got to 12k but I didn't know the joseki for a 33 invasion into a single encosure hoshi. Or at my level can I just fight instead. Since most of my opponents seem as clueless as me about joseki.

In other news, Get Strong at Joseki One and Two star problems going well, I'm being lazy about Speed Baduk 7 but I hope to get some of it done today.

hmm.. I'm showing u 2 of the variant that I know (absolutely there are a lot of anothers out there). at the left, is a peaceful answer and it's the common answering. white only get 2nd and 1st line territory, but black can make good wall there and bigger territory even though it depends on board situations.
the key point is this: "direct ur opponent's stone to ur strong wall, so U can kill it later" by Kim Mong Dyung 6p. U need to see ur stones at which side. ok?

So, for the 2nd variant is next move for black at (do you know where?)? just look at the board and u'll know it. I'll response again after ur answer.
$$Bc This is my first diagram. sorry if incovenience.
$$ -------------------------------
$$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . 2 3 . . . - . . 2 3 . . .
$$ - . . 4 1 . . . - . . 4 1 . . .
$$ - . 6 5 . 9 . . - . 6 5 9 . . .
$$ - . 8 7 . . . . - . 7 8 . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . . - . 0 . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . .
$$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . .
$$ -------------------------------

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bc This is my first diagram. sorry if incovenience. $$ ------------------------------- $$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . $$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . $$ - . . 2 3 . . . - . . 2 3 . . . $$ - . . 4 1 . . . - . . 4 1 . . . $$ - . 6 5 . 9 . . - . 6 5 9 . . . $$ - . 8 7 . . . . - . 7 8 . . . . $$ - . . . . . . . - . 0 . . . . . $$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . $$ - . . . . . . . - . . . . . . . $$ -------------------------------[/go]

You're thinking of regular 3,3 josekies. I'm talking about 3,3 josekies when black has a small knight's enclosure or similar on one side.

bakekoq · Post by **bakekoq** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:03 am

Boidhre wrote:You're thinking of regular 3,3 josekies. I'm talking about 3,3 josekies when black has a small knight's enclosure or similar on one side.

owh, I see. the answering is at one point jump than hoshi point. I got this info from one of my game in OGS. so, please choose one or make the new one.

but, from the comment above. U want to invade at 3,3 if ur opponent already has keima? I suggest for not doing it.
here's the result:

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:24 am

Actually, w can hane under at the 4-2 point to get a ko, iirc. But if I understand correctly what you're saying, Boidhre - someone invaded your enclosure and lived outright - it's not really a matter of memorizing joseki, but of sharpening your instincts for life and death.

bakekoq · Post by **bakekoq** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:26 am

jts wrote:Actually, w can hane under at the 4-2 point to get a ko, iirc. But if I understand correctly what you're saying, Boidhre - someone invaded your enclosure and lived outright - it's not really a matter of memorizing joseki, but of sharpening your instincts for life and death.

hello, jts. can u show us the details diagram? I still don't get it. thanks before

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:28 am

jts wrote:Actually, w can hane under at the 4-2 point to get a ko, iirc. But if I understand correctly what you're saying, Boidhre - someone invaded your enclosure and lived outright - it's not really a matter of memorizing joseki, but of sharpening your instincts for life and death.

No, I invaded and lived outright so um, yeah.

But afterwards I figured that I should have died there.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:33 am

Actually here's the game in question, just to clear things up:

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:34 am

Boidhre wrote:
jts wrote:Actually, w can hane under at the 4-2 point to get a ko, iirc. But if I understand correctly what you're saying, Boidhre - someone invaded your enclosure and lived outright - it's not really a matter of memorizing joseki, but of sharpening your instincts for life and death.

No, I invaded and lived outright so um, yeah.

But afterwards I figured that I should have died there.

I rest my case. :clap:

BakEkoq, I'm on a mobile device right now so I can't make the diagrams, but you can check it out yourself at sites like josekipedia, eidogo, daily joseki, etc.

Boidhre · Post by **Boidhre** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:40 am

Actually, wing might be better than enclosure as a word there? Hmm, I might have been confusing people.

jts · Post by **jts** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 7:57 am

Enclosure in the right word. "wing", as in "double wing formation", is usually the long extension to the adjacent star point.

You did fine in the lower left, but you lost your nerve in the endgame - s12, s12!

oren · Post by **oren** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 9:46 am

Boidhre wrote:Do I need to care about joseki? I won a game and got to 12k but I didn't know the joseki for a 33 invasion into a single encosure hoshi. Or at my level can I just fight instead. Since most of my opponents seem as clueless as me about joseki.

No, don't study joseki yet. If you read and play what you think is the best move, you will be playing joseki. Afterwards, you can check on a site like dailyjoseki.com if other people had played it. If they hadn't... then you have to figure out why.

illluck · Post by **illluck** » Wed Jun 06, 2012 10:09 am

I have to disagree with oren. There's really no need to reinvent the wheel and remember inferior sequences- at least look up the most common situations (e.g. sansna invasion into just the 4-4, into 4-4 with keima, into 4-4 with ogeima). A lot of the shapes and sequences in those situations are also applicable in other places.

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