Why KGS encourages escapes and how to fix it

[adsfadfaf]

• There is no option to have a game automatically forfeit after some hours or days if someone just decides to close it and play other games.
• Escapers are able to keep escaping again and again and they lose nothing from it
• It is forbidden to talk about escapers publicly (and if you do so you the victim, can get banned) so escapers can easily hide

To fix the escaper problem of KGS all you need to do is add an option that forfeits games after a day of disconnection. This way everyone is happen, the people that like to allow games to resume after indefinite time, and those who want escapers dealt with properly.

[gogameguru]

• There is no option to have a game automatically forfeit after some hours or days if someone just decides to close it and play other games.

Except that when that player escapes enough games, they'll start to forfeit all the games they leave automatically. If the person you played keeps escaping, they'll forfeit the game they played with you.

Anyway, if they left because you were winning, just accept that you won, review your game and move on. Getting the 'win' isn't that important is it? The only people who complain about this are people who are too obsessed with what their 'rank' is. That's a meaningless number anyway, so forget about that, relax and become stronger.

• Escapers are able to keep escaping again and again and they lose nothing from it

That's not true, there's a limit. And this is actually a feature of KGS because, even though most people don't realise, KGS doubles as a turn based Go server. You can leave a game that you're playing unfinished and when your opponent logs in and makes a move, you'll get an email.

So you have the option of finishing a game in a turn based or real time fashion, and you can switch between them. This is a good feature for busy people and personally I like it. If KGS timed people out like you're suggesting, this feature would be broken, wouldn't it?

[speedchase]

• It is forbidden to talk about escapers publicly (and if you do so you the victim, can get banned) so escapers can easily hide

pm a admin, they are very nice (well except some of them, but that is another issue).

[Kirby]

So you have the option of finishing a game in a turn based or real time fashion, and you can switch between them. This is a good feature for busy people and personally I like it. If KGS timed people out like you're suggesting, this feature would be broken, wouldn't it?

In my opinion, this feature should only be available for games without time limit. Otherwise, the time limit has no meaning.

[shapenaji]

So you have the option of finishing a game in a turn based or real time fashion, and you can switch between them. This is a good feature for busy people and personally I like it. If KGS timed people out like you're suggesting, this feature would be broken, wouldn't it?

In my opinion, this feature should only be available for games without time limit. Otherwise, the time limit has no meaning.

yeah, if you want to have this, it should be a separate type of game. If this is the goal behind the setup, it's very kludgy.

[emeraldemon]

Hmm, I wonder if this has ever come up before...


Prevent escapers from starting new games: http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =24&t=5575

Proposed solution to the escapers problem…: http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =24&t=4266

Why aren't escapers marked?: http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =24&t=3678

Escapers http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =24&t=3679

Prevent escapers from starting new games http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... =24&t=5575

KGS escaper policy - explicit enough? http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... f=24&t=530

What bothers you about being escaped on? http://www.lifein19x19.com/forum/viewto ... f=24&t=524

[RobertJasiek]

To fix the escaper problem of KGS all you need to do is add an option that forfeits games after a day of disconnection.

Fixing the escaper problem requires a bit more but not that much. I have made related proposals for IGS, then KGS during the last 15 years (see rec.games.go), but so far server programmers are not interested in solving the problem. That is the major cause. Allow escapers by providing weak procedures for game management (such as removing dead stones without the opponent's confirmation) - and there will be escapers.

[tapir]

This is the only topic about KGS which isn't worth discussion anymore. It was stated repeatedly and unambiguously all over the internet by WMS and KGS admins that this is a feature. As in: You should be able to abandon a game without punishment if your opponent starts to attack you verbally in the game chat.

Habitual escaping leads to automatical forfeits since ages.

[RobertJasiek]

Habitual escaping leads to automatical forfeits since ages.

It does not consistently. Typical trick: Undo and it is the opponent's move. Repeat.

[HKA]

Let me make two things clear. I absolutely love KGS, and I absolutely hate escapers. And I have had a dodgy internet issue lately and the thought that others think I might have escaped makes my skin crawl.

That being said, KGS is a wonderful tool - it is NOT the be all and end all of our existance and our rank graphs are NOT our soul (deliberate) measures of self worth. If folks would just realize this, there would be fewer escapers and less upset about them.

KGS should be about having fun, improving our go, and using our time efficiently to learn. When you really think about it, none of this is really impacted by an escaper - with the right attitude it is hilarious to outplay someone to the point they crawl away, clearly you are going to learn nothing from them and there is all manner of efficiency in being well shut of them.

Look, the frustrated have my sympathies, I am one of you - the above is an aspiration - but it is a logical one. Play on KGS to learn and have fun - then take that knowledge and join/form a club and leave the escapers behind. If you live too remotely to make that happen, still try, and while trying, form a group of friends online and learn and challenge and play seriously with each other, and laugh off the escapers you have enountered and frustrated together.

[gowan]

I play go to have fun and learn. Both of these can happen whether I win or lose and whether my partner in the game escapes or not. It is perfectly possible to review a game in which your partner escaped, after all.

[Redundant]

This is the only topic about KGS which isn't worth discussion anymore. It was stated repeatedly and unambiguously all over the internet by WMS and KGS admins that this is a feature. As in: You should be able to abandon a game without punishment if your opponent starts to attack you verbally in the game chat.

There's a doubling up of features here, as you may just ignore the abusive user.

[shapenaji]

This is the only topic about KGS which isn't worth discussion anymore. It was stated repeatedly and unambiguously all over the internet by WMS and KGS admins that this is a feature. As in: You should be able to abandon a game without punishment if your opponent starts to attack you verbally in the game chat.

Habitual escaping leads to automatical forfeits since ages.

Also kludgy, since they implemented a censor button.

[jts]

This is the only topic about KGS which isn't worth discussion anymore. It was stated repeatedly and unambiguously all over the internet by WMS and KGS admins that this is a feature. As in: You should be able to abandon a game without punishment if your opponent starts to attack you verbally in the game chat.

Habitual escaping leads to automatical forfeits since ages.

Also kludgy, since they implemented a censor button.

Censoring only works after the fact. If someone informs me that my mother was a hamster, I won't be in the mood to play him even if I censor him immediately.

[Redundant]

This is the only topic about KGS which isn't worth discussion anymore. It was stated repeatedly and unambiguously all over the internet by WMS and KGS admins that this is a feature. As in: You should be able to abandon a game without punishment if your opponent starts to attack you verbally in the game chat.

Habitual escaping leads to automatical forfeits since ages.

Also kludgy, since they implemented a censor button.

Censoring only works after the fact. If someone informs me that my mother was a hamster, I won't be in the mood to play him even if I censor him immediately.

I still don't see leaving the game as the right option. If someone is being insulting, then the correct response is to tell an admin. If someone is being annoying but within the terms of service, then you negatively impact the experience of the other person by leaving his game, while ignoring him and finishing the game means no more annoyance. I still don't see a situation where the "correct" in my view choice is to just leave the game. Also, I've never actually seen anyone escape in this type of situation ...

I know this topic never actually goes anywhere, so I'm probably not going to stay in this topic much longer ...