169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

illluck
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by illluck »

I think black 13 is a mistake - it's not very big at this stage. I would much rather play on lower right.
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Bcm15
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


So after yelling at my computer long enough to make me feel better (but not so long as to compel my co-workers ask questions), I'm playing what I feel is the only reasonable response to W14. White has a number of very good follow-ups, but that's my fault at the end of the day. B13 & W14 actually illustrates one of the many problems I have with this game. On the one hand, I've had a lot of people (both online and in person) stress to me that I need to better protect my weak groups. At the same time, I've also been criticized for playing small while letting my opponent play bigger. After W12, the black group on the bottom left didn't look safe to me and so I played B13 to make certain it was. I expected white to extend from the wall facing his 4-4 stone at the top, at which point I was going to play W14 or attach under the white stone approaching the black 3-4 stone.
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm16
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Until :b15: I thought blindgod played much better than 18k level.
The correct (pro) shape for :b13: could be something like B5? But that's very minor at these levels. :b15: is the first B move that's not so good.
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$cm17
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O 1 . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


I considered Q5, R5, S6, P2 & tenuki but didn't like any of them. To be completely honest, I don't like R6, but it seems the best of my options. I'm not certain if there's a way to protect my corner without giving a nice amount of influence to white. If there is, I don't see it.
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
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$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X . . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
First feeling. Continuations:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$, . . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$. . . . . 2 O X . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$, . . . . O , X . . |
$$. . . . . O X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$, . . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . 2 O . . |
$$. . . . . . O X 1 . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$, . . . . O , X . . |
$$. . . . . O X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$
$$, . . . . . , . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . O . . |
$$. . . . . 2 O X . . |
$$. . . . . . 1 . . . |
$$, . . . . O , X . . |
$$. . . . . O X . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$. . . . . . . . . . |
$$---------------------[/go]
blindgod
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm18
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X 2 . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Liked this better than S7, Q5, or P2, all of which left what I feel leave a large weakness at S6. Plus, I can see good follow-up moves for black after white plays move 20. Assuming, of course, that I can somewhat accurately predict his response. Which I've been less than stellar at so far.
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm20
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . 1 O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
blindgod
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

Just a quick fyi, I'm going to be out of town until Sunday night. So have a good weekend and I'll see you then. But before I go.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm20
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm22
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . 1 X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
Thank-you move. The :b21:- :w22: exchange is good for W:
:b21: is on the inside, not very useful, but :w22: is on the outside, useful.

Later, for example, after :w1:- :b2:, :w3: becomes double atari:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . O X X . |
$$ . . O X . . . |
$$ . . O 3 X . . |
$$ . . O X . . . |
$$ . . . 1 2 . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$----------------[/go]
blindgod
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm22
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 2 . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]


Sometimes bad things happen when I take 3 minutes to think about a move instead of 30.


EDIT

I played here specifically so that white couldn't later on. It would protect my corner in the following fashion

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . O X X . |
$$ . . O X . . . |
$$ . . O 2 X . . |
$$ . . O X . . . |
$$ . . 1 X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$----------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . O X X . |
$$ . . O X 2 . . |
$$ . . O 1 X . . |
$$ . . O X 3 4 . |
$$ . . . X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$----------------[/go]


or

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ . . . , . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$ . . . O O . . |
$$ . . . O X X . |
$$ . . O X 2 . . |
$$ . . O 1 X . . |
$$ . . O X . 4 . |
$$ . . 3 X . . . |
$$ . . . . . . . |
$$----------------[/go]


It wasn't so much that I forsaw these being played out. I just wanted to cover my bases and protect my group. Much the same as move 13. But if nothing else, this clearly identifies an area I need to improve. All three scenarios give white sente and allow him to make a big move elsewhere.
Last edited by blindgod on Mon Jun 18, 2012 10:12 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm24
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . 1 . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X X . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . X . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
(For beginners.) Seems :b23: is too slow. After :w20: connected in gote, B already could've tenuki with :b21:.
For example, it would've made a big difference if B had approached the UL corner with :b21: (or :b23:).

Direction of :w24:: because of the :bc: stones, there is less development on the bottom or the right side:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm24
$$ -----------------------------------------
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . O . . . . . , . . . . . X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ | . . O O . . . . . . . . . . . O O . . |
$$ | . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . O X B . |
$$ | . . . . O . . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . X O . . . . . , . . . . O , X . . |
$$ | . . X X . B . . . . . . . . O X . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . B . . . |
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |
$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
blindgod
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

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[go]$$Wcm24
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I considered backing off at R14, but it seems to me that I'd either end up with a weak group in the corner or white would have an easy time creating a large framework on the top. Considering how much influence white's built up so far, neither of those possibilities are appealing.


I had a hard time deciding between L17, M17, & M16. Any feedback for after the game would be appreciated. Thanks.
Last edited by blindgod on Mon Jun 18, 2012 3:11 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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EdLee
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Post by EdLee »

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[go]$$Wm26
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(a) and (b) direction are miai:
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[go]$$W
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . |[/go]
Also considered something like :w1: to start a fight, but decided against the complications,
as the top and upper left still seem bigger than the right side (especially because of :bc:):
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Re: 169 - blindgod vs. EdLee

Post by blindgod »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wcm26
$$ -----------------------------------------
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$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
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Post by EdLee »

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$Wm28
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$$ -----------------------------------------[/go]
miai
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