For lessons, as well as threads about specific moves, and anything else worth studying.
Bill Spight
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by Bill Spight » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:08 am
A thread for shape problems.
Problem #1:
$$Bc Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . W . , X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . W . , X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X . X . . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]How does Black respond to
?
Enjoy!
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.
Uberdude
Judan
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by Uberdude » Sun Jun 24, 2012 8:29 am
lightvector
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by lightvector » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:43 am
Like Uberdude, my first feeling was O3 and then M2 for connecting black's groups. But if M2, and later white's center group gets strong enough, I wonder if is there any lingering aji from something like this?
$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . O . 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X 4 X 1 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . B . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . O . 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X 4 X 1 5 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . B . . 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . O 5 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X 6 X 1 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . B . 4 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Wc $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . O 5 2 X . . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X 6 X 1 7 . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . B . 4 3 . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Last edited by
lightvector on Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:53 am, edited 1 time in total.
Bonobo
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by Bonobo » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:48 am
I’m a mere 12-14k, but neverthelss …
and thus could well be that I earn an ashaming defeat, as so often :-! And no, I didn’t play it out.
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali
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by illluck » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:57 am
Uberdude
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by Uberdude » Sun Jun 24, 2012 9:57 am
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by The Pilgrim » Sun Jun 24, 2012 12:36 pm
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by Ellyster » Sun Jun 24, 2012 3:15 pm
I would say M4... and connect while attack, but I haven't think it harder
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by cyclops » Sun Jun 24, 2012 5:50 pm
q5 why?
Uberdude
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by Uberdude » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:16 pm
illluck
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by illluck » Sun Jun 24, 2012 6:28 pm
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by Toge » Sun Jun 24, 2012 11:44 pm
EdLee
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by EdLee » Mon Jun 25, 2012 12:20 am
Bonobo,
Bonobo wrote: I didn’t play it out.
If this shape is not immediately obvious to you,
then the first thing for you to study is to read what happens if W pushes at o3.
This is the start of the whole discussion. If later, you can find some nice counter-attack for B, great.
But first, what happens if B tenuki and W pushes at o3? Did you even think about this?
Bonobo
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by Bonobo » Mon Jun 25, 2012 6:36 am
Thanks, Ed, this again shows that I have a loooong way to go. My reflexes/instincts/intuition is far from being well-trained, so I’ll keep on following my self-prescription of “play & read & tsumego”, and guess I should stay out of such threads (i.e. not post) unless I’ve at least played around a bit w/ the constellation in question.
“The only difference between me and a madman is that I’m not mad.” — Salvador Dali
Bill Spight
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by Bill Spight » Mon Jun 25, 2012 8:45 am
The answer:
$$Bc Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . 4 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . W . 2 X 5 . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X . X 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code [go]$$Bc Black to play $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . O . . X . . X . . . . . . X . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . X . X . O . | $$ | . . . O . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . O . . . . . . . . . . . . . O . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . X . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X . X . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . O . . . . . . . O . . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . X . O . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . X . . . . . . O . 4 . . | $$ | . . . O . . . . . O O . . W . 2 X 5 . | $$ | . . . . O X . . X X . . X . X 3 . . . | $$ | . . . . . X . . . . . 1 . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go] protects against the push and cut and connects to the Black stones on the left.
The game:
(;SZ[19]FF[3] PW[Go Seigen] WR[8d] PB[Sakata Eio] BR[7d] EV[Go vs. 10 High-Dan Players match sponsored by Yomiuri Shinbun] RO[Game 10] DT[Published 1950-03-31~04-12] TM[10h] KM[0] OH[(B)-B-W] RE[W+R] US[GoGoD95] ;B[pd];W[dp];B[qp];W[dc];B[oq];W[de];B[jc];W[qf];B[nd];W[rd];B[qc];W[qi] ;B[gc];W[ci];B[fq];W[dn];B[iq];W[ge];B[qk];W[jp];B[jq];W[kp];B[ho];W[eq] ;B[fr];W[hm];B[jn];W[ln];B[jl];W[ll];B[jj];W[pm];B[ok];W[oo];B[mq];W[np] ;B[lr];W[pp];B[pq];W[qo];B[rp];W[pj];B[pk];W[nj];B[om];W[nl];B[nk];W[mk] ;B[qm];W[ol];B[pl];W[pn];B[ro];W[gj];B[ck];W[io];B[mm];W[ml];B[in];W[hn] ;B[lo];W[go];B[lm];W[km];B[kn];W[mn];B[hp];W[dh];B[cq];W[cp];B[cn];W[bo] ;B[cc];W[eb];B[fi];W[gi];B[cg];W[cd];B[bd];W[be];B[dm];W[en];B[bi];W[bj] ;B[cj];W[bh];B[di];W[ch];B[bk];W[ai];B[em];W[lp];B[gl];W[hl];B[fn];W[fo] ;B[gn];W[fm];B[gm];W[fl];B[gk];W[fk];B[hk];W[fj];B[bq];W[bm];B[cm];W[bn] ;B[er];W[mp];B[hj];W[dq];B[dr];W[dj];B[ed];W[fd];B[fc];W[ec];B[he];W[hf] ;B[ie];W[gd];B[hd];W[gg];B[if];W[qn];B[rn];W[rm];B[ql];W[oe];B[fp];W[bp] ;B[bl];W[dl];B[cl];W[ep];B[od];W[rc];B[rb];W[mf];B[pf];W[qb];B[pe];W[pb] ;B[ob];W[qg];B[ap];W[eo];B[ao];W[dk];B[hh];W[gh];B[mh];W[ng];B[nh];W[og] ;B[pg];W[oh];B[hg];W[gf];B[ph];W[lh];B[oj];W[oi];B[qh];W[mi];B[rh];W[sb] ;B[lj];W[mj];B[ra];W[qa];B[re];W[qe];B[rf];W[qd];B[pc];W[sa];B[rg];W[sd] ;B[lg];W[mg];B[pi];W[gb];B[hc];W[fb];B[kh];W[li];B[gp];W[al];B[le];W[lf] ;B[kg];W[me];B[md];W[ke];B[ld];W[kf];B[ak];W[am];B[ki];W[hi];B[ii];W[ja] ;B[aq];W[el];B[ha];W[la];B[ma];W[hb];B[ib];W[ia];B[kb];W[kk];B[ka];W[oa] ;B[nb];W[ik];B[ij];W[jk];B[il];W[nq];B[nr];W[nm] )
The Adkins Principle:
At some point, doesn't thinking have to go on?
— Winona Adkins
Visualize whirled peas.
Everything with love. Stay safe.