KGS homophobia?

[hyperpape]

I'm logging on as Str8anime this afternoon, let's see what happens.

[wms]

KGS has always had a policy of "no sexual user names." I remember back when I was still admin requiring several user names to change; I think one was "sexgoddess", but there were others. If a google search for "lezanime" turns up lots of porn, then it pretty much becomes a sexual name, so I would probably require that to change also. I tried to apply the same rules whether the name in question implied gay sex, straight sex, gay porn, straight porn, whatever. The current admins, I'm pretty sure, are still following these rules.

[BigDoug]

Hello,

I really hope lesbian isn't a dirty word.

In real life, part of my job involves working with developers and other technical staff. Depending on the size of the project, the number of developers can range from 5 to 60. When working with that many people, there are often disputes which need to be resolved.

When I'm told about someone making a completely illogical decision and asked to fix it, I generally ask myself two questions:

1. Do I have all the information available or just one person's perspective?
2. Do I agree with the person's decision or should I get more information about why it was made?

If I believe that a person's decision was illogical, but I haven't understood the basis of the decision, then I talk with the person about why the decision was made. Once I have both sides of the story, then I'm in a better position to make a judgement. Over the years, I've found that making a judgement based only on one person's perspective often creates additional work later.

[shapenaji]

Hello,

In real life, part of my job involves working with developers and other technical staff. Depending on the size of the project, the number of developers can range from 5 to 60. When working with that many people, there are often disputes which need to be resolved.

When I'm told about someone making a completely illogical decision and asked to fix it, I generally ask myself two questions:

1. Do I have all the information available or just one person's perspective?
2. Do I agree with the person's decision or should I get more information about why it was made?

If I believe that a person's decision was illogical, but I haven't understood the basis of the decision, then I talk with the person about why the decision was made. Once I have both sides of the story, then I'm in a better position to make a judgement. Over the years, I've found that making a judgement based only on one person's perspective often creates additional work later.

Thanks for your response BigDoug,

So you're saying that there is additional information that I don't have, based on my limited perspective.

Wouldn't the natural response here be to give your perspective?

[BigDoug]

Hello,

So you're saying that there is additional information that I don't have, based on my limited perspective.

Wouldn't the natural response here be to give your perspective?

To be honest, the reason why I wrote the message wasn't to present my point of view on this dispute. The main reason was to suggest that you don't immediately make a judgement on who is right and who is wrong based only on one person's perspective.

As far as this particular situation, I hesitate to give my perspective based on two grounds:

1. The person involved and I exchanged quite a bit of information both in private chat and in private e-mails. As noted in previous threads, I am quite reluctant to share information which was discussed in private, even if it forms part of the basis of my decision. I'm very happy to discuss information which is publicly available, but that's not always the basis of my decision.

2. When a person is angry, it's not unusual for that person to say things which he or she regrets later. (This obviously applies to me as much as anyone else.) Too often, I see dispute resolution as point-scoring, rather than a genuine attempt to resolve the situation. In this situation, given that the issue in question has been resolved, I don't see any point in bringing it back to life.

People with good intentions can disagree honestly about a situation -- that happens regularly and is usually the case when admins get involved in resolving a dispute. In this instance, one person and I had different opinions on how to handle a situation. It has since been resolved. I respect the person's point of view and hope that the same is true for him.

The reason why I wrote the message just now is to suggest that people refrain from making judgements until both perspectives are given and understood. So many times on KGS and 19x19, I see people make judgements based on only one perspective and all sorts of complications ensue.

[Ellyster]

I personally think that the admins made the right call on this one, without any doubt. (This doesn't mean that I agree on the rule of not allowing sex, religious, political,... related names, which I'm indifferent... but I accept that save a lot flame wars).


As the user should know "lezanime" is more used in reference to "Yuri" (lesbian anime pornography) than "Shojou Ai" (lesbian romance anime, sometimes with soft eroticism), the intention of the user could be otherwise (no doubt about that), but the appearance for most of the users that see this nickname would be just... something with sexual connotations.

It happens the same with "Hentai" which in fact, in Japan, its first meaning [変態] is not porn related... it just mean "metamorphosis/transformation" (http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/%E5%A4%89%E6%85%8B), the second meaning is "pervert/perversion" and the final one is "anime porn". And the same with "Ecchi", that it literally means "H" (and it's used in spelling words), but can be used as substitute of "Erotic" or even with not Japanese words... you can be a big fan of XXX, the spy films of Vin Disel... but in lot of countries "XXX" is a euphemism for "porn content". But is obvious to everyone that this names should be banned and it is not an homophobic/dictatorial behaivour.


So, in this case, the important thing is what image will first come to the general public's mind playing in KGS when they see your nickname in a game (or equivalently they see when type it on Google).



Best think that he can do is to choose a main character's name, like daal suggested

[jts]

Sorry, I'm not buying the "if porn comes up when you google the user name" excuse. I just plugged a couple of well-known kgs user names into Google Images; suffice to say I had to close the window very quickly. The problem must have originally been the reference to lesbianism.

[Joaz Banbeck]

Sorry, I'm not buying the "if porn comes up when you google the user name" excuse. I just plugged a couple of well-known kgs user names into Google Images; suffice to say I had to close the window very quickly. The problem must have originally been the reference to lesbianism.

I tried several, and got nothing that I couldn't show to my grandmother. For some reason, Google must be inferring that you have a preference for porn.

[daal]

Sorry, I'm not buying the "if porn comes up when you google the user name" excuse. I just plugged a couple of well-known kgs user names into Google Images; suffice to say I had to close the window very quickly. The problem must have originally been the reference to lesbianism.

If that was the case, don't you think that it might have been due more to the reference to sexuality per se than specifically lesbian sexuality? It's probably a bit uptight to go around googling every sex related word (google must be somebody's nightmare), but it's not unexpected. The zealous and giddy American impulse to censor all aspects of sexuality and verbally beat around the bush is what forces many websites to put mechanisms in place that cause the red lights to flash. This isn't homophobia; it's just regular old sexophobia.

edit: Ah, wait a sec. I see what you're saying. That among the slew of sex-charged nicknames on KGS, giseki, a gay person, has gotten singled out. Hm. Without knowing how apparent these other references are (and not everyone is well versed in porn-speak), it's hard to judge. But as wms pointed out, if it's obvious to the admins that someone's nick is related to sexuality, then that person should surely be treated the same as giseki was (which is not to say that this is a good way to treat anybody, but as BigDoug pointed out, we don't have all the details). If this isn't the case, and lezanime gets boot-threatened while a non-gay sex-nick user doesn't, then indeed, it's possible that a double standard is being applied.

edit 2: As far as googling images is concerned, it's probably hard to find something innocuous enough that it doesn't bring up porn - or something even weirder. To test your thesis, the first kgs nick I image-googled brought up this: (KGS name not mentioned to prevent permanent mental association - warning: not sexually explicit, but really weird)

[admin]
Image deleted because it is in violation of the TOS
-JB
[/admin]

P.S. If an admin feels the need to delete it, have fun explaining why

[admin]
It was not sexually explicit only because of the cleverness of the photographer and the angle of the shot. It was highly suggestive in ways that are hard to articulate, and which turn my stomach when I try. It may not have been in violation of the letter of the TOS, but it violated the spirit of the TOS with room to spare.
-JB
[/admin]

[Uberdude]

I was rather, erm what's the word, bemused when someone told me recently that the top google result for my username is a gay porn blog. Thankfully a few of the other hits are actually about me.

P.S. Why does everyone continue to refer to giseki as a she/gay? He revealed his name is Greg which is afaik only a male name, so seems it's a guy turned on by lesbians. Nothing wrong with that, but not really suitable to advertise as your KGS username

P.P.S. L19 needs more SEO to knock that porn blog off #1!

[NoSkill]

Yea I mean the name in the context is not okay, but once again, you wouldn't think anything bad from the name "lezanime" or even his description.

The google excuse is pathetic, you can google even the names of admins like bigdoug and sweety... find some bad pics in the pictures section somewhere. Terrible excuse to make someone rename.

Also as was stated in the chat with the Moderator, he asked if it was because the name suggested adult content (which it doesn't) and the GM said no.

I think that should be investigated.

[giseki]

finally, the matter has been put to rest...

Hello,

After you raised your concerns on the 19x19 site, you would have seen
the discussion play out there. Several people have pointed out various
unpleasant aspects of the name lezanime and a decision has been made
to block its use on KGS.

A suggestion was made that you simply use an account name associated
with your favourite anime characters. Hopefully this should resolve
any future difficulties. I'm glad that you recognise that references
to inappropriate anime shouldn't be repeated on KGS.

We hope that you enjoy playing go on KGS.

Regards,
Doug

After reading about others googling lezanime and finding porn it's not too surprising that this decision was made... however i still, somewhat, question the context of the initial ban and Doug's tone when he banned me.
It is without question that BigDoug asked me what the name lezanime meant to which i replied lesbian anime. It's at that point he gave me the choice to either change the name or be banned. Unless he thought that all lesbian anime amounted to porn, a question i have asked a number of times but still not received an answer, it's an unjustified reaction.

Anyways whether KGS admin/moderators harbour rascists, homophobes, warfreaks or whatever...no hard feelings.

[Joaz Banbeck]

Yea I mean the name in the context is not okay, but once again, you wouldn't think anything bad from the name "lezanime" or even his description.

The google excuse is pathetic, you can google even the names of admins like bigdoug and sweety... find some bad pics in the pictures section somewhere. Terrible excuse to make someone rename...

Sure, if you search deep enough in google results with safe search off you can find porn for any word. But a quick search of 'lezanime' showed only porn or highly suggestive photos ( with the odd exception of a KGS rank chart. ) And even those merely suggestive photos mostly seem to lead to porn sites.

I agree with Big Doug here. There is a difference between a name that returns 1% porn and one that returns 99% porn.

[Ellyster]

Anyways whether KGS admin/moderators harbour rascists, homophobes, warfreaks or whatever...no hard feelings.

Estrange... Quite a long succession of insults to the KGS admins & moderators in this forum have you done, just to end with a "no hard feelings" .

I hope not, because was interesting read the opinions of both parties of the KGS rule disagreement (in very good terms until now), but be aware that you can get banned from L19 for things like this (or get a warning, the first time). L19 Rules

[giseki]

A PS for a couple of opinions i objected to...

Why does everyone continue to refer to giseki as a she/gay? He revealed his name is Greg which is afaik only a male name, so seems it's a guy turned on by lesbians. Nothing wrong with that, but not really suitable to advertise as your KGS username

I am a guy but you don't know me and don't assume you do.

As the user should know "lezanime" is more used in reference to "Yuri" (lesbian anime pornography) than "Shojou Ai" (lesbian romance anime, sometimes with soft eroticism), the intention of the user could be otherwise (no doubt about that), but the appearance for most of the users that see this nickname would be just... something with sexual connotations.

Again... not correct. I've never actually heard anybody using the term lezanime before but as for yuri and shoujo ai...

Quick quote from wikipedia "Maria-sama ga Miteru is considered representative of yuri novels." That should clear up any thoughts that Yuri=lesbian anime pornography.

In fact Yuri is a broad genre of which shoujo ai(girl love) is a small but popular part. However I can see that perhaps lezanime can be seen as "something with sexual connotations" so i have dropped my initial objections.

Quite a long succession of insults to the KGS admins & moderators in this forum have you done, just to end with a "no hard feelings" .

sorry, that was an attempt at a joke ...honestly no hard feelings

Finally Lesbian Anime and Manga is a fabulous, cute, unique and interesting genre that all should know about. I can't say the same about male homosexual anime and manga because as a genre it contains far too much rape (a problem that appears in far too much manga/anime imo)