strange game, opinions ? (2k)

lorill · Post by **lorill** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 5:24 am

Here is a game with some strange moves in the opening. I've added a few comments and question, but what do you think about it ? I'm particulary curious about 19 and 39.

Thanks!

Osvaldo · Post by **Osvaldo** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 11:53 am

Here are a few thoughts on a few moves, though I am only a bit stronger than you

19: i dont think this is the right move. I think q9 or q10 would be better (as far as making an opening that limits whites moyo potential). The double approach is rarely good against sanrensei (i think), because white can respond at either r3 or p5 and get a good result in both cases. Similarly I would have preferred move 7 at d9 or so.

35: a big move, but I think it should be at r8, otherwise the cut is very painful. r8 also sets up a good followup at o8

39: definitely r8. white has played some small moves and you are way ahead in this opening

41: though it is extremely painful, i think you must play at s7,r8,s8 so u can at least live small

53: yeah i think this would be better at r15 or r17. in general you should hane if you are weaker in the area, nobi if u are stronger

85 and 87: these are bad moves in my opinion. you should always surround before trying to reduce to one eye, unless you are extremely strong all around. definitely should be at j12. (take profit white threatening)

99: this sequence reduces but also is a bit aji-keshi, you really reinforce white and take away chances of threatening his lower left wall with a move like g4 later

109: seems unnecessary, i dont think white can live there. i would play p12, threatening the white groups a little bit while at the same time correcting thebad aji around q10

despite a big mistake (ommitting r8) and a disastrous result in the top right (starting with your hane), you managed to win, so good job. and good job on not responding to his small moves in the opening! I think you will soon move up to 1k

all the best,
dave

lorill · Post by **lorill** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 1:55 pm

Osvaldo wrote:85 and 87: these are bad moves in my opinion. you should always surround before trying to reduce to one eye, unless you are extremely strong all around. definitely should be at j12. (take profit white threatening)

I was a bit worried about the base for my left group. Shouldn't I ?

Thanks for the comments!

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Thu Aug 02, 2012 2:14 pm

Some comments.

lorill · Post by **lorill** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 1:09 am

Thanks a lot, Bill. In your variation for 10, can't white push and cut immediately ?

Bill Spight · Post by **Bill Spight** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 7:34 am

lorill wrote:Thanks a lot, Bill. In your variation for 10, can't white push and cut immediately ?

Then Black can sacrifice the corner, I think.

Osvaldo · Post by **Osvaldo** » Fri Aug 03, 2012 8:50 am

lorill wrote:
Osvaldo wrote:85 and 87: these are bad moves in my opinion. you should always surround before trying to reduce to one eye, unless you are extremely strong all around. definitely should be at j12. (take profit white threatening)

I was a bit worried about the base for my left group. Shouldn't I ?

Thanks for the comments!

Hey Lorill,

I see what you mean, but i think it's too early to be worried about the base for that group. When you are not sure whether or not you should worry about a group that doesn't clearly have two eyes, you should look at the strengths of your opponents groups that are nearby. In this case, you have a group that is not clearly alive, between two enemy groups that are not clearly alive (d4 and d12). This is a good position to be in.

If at move 85, you play j12, then it would be quite bad for white to try and attack your group, because he himself would be violating the principle of "surround before taking away eye space" and also "don't attack with weak groups". If he tries to attack your b6 group directly, you will probably run out comfortably and his d4 group will end up threatened (probably also his c12 group), and your j12 stone will be really useful in this kind of running battle.

so all this to say that it is too slow to just directly reinforce your group in this type of situation, (in my humble opinion)

I'm not good at making the diagrams but if you want we can meet on kgs to discuss this situation further

all the best,
dave

cyclops · Post by **cyclops** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 4:58 pm

Bill Spight wrote:Then Black can sacrifice the corner, I think.

Like this, I guess.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Bc $$ | . . . . . $$ | . X X X . $$ | . X O O . $$ | . O X O . $$ | . W X O . $$ | . . . . . $$ | . . . . . $$ +-----------[/go]

Dusk Eagle · Post by **Dusk Eagle** » Sat Aug 04, 2012 5:08 pm

No, I think if white cuts on that side, black will capture the stone and live in the corner:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . a . . . . $$ | . 3 X X b . $$ | . X O O . . $$ | 4 1 X O . . $$ | . 2 X O . . $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . . . . . . $$ +-----------[/go]

Then, it's very risky for white to pull his stone out at 'a', so he'll probably just play 'b'.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$Wc $$ | . . . . . . $$ | . 2 . . . . $$ | 4 1 X X . . $$ | . X O O a . $$ | . 3 X O . . $$ | . 5 X O . . $$ | . . . . . b $$ | . . . . . . $$ +------------[/go]

This is the variation where black sacrifices the corner. Black has a better shape on the outside than when he doesn't get to capture :w1:

. Also, notice that moves like 'a' or 'b' are sente for black.

Life In 19x19

strange game, opinions ? (2k)

strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)

Re: strange game, opinions ? (2k)