An extremely hypothetical question

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:06 am

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

Suppose you're Black. How much komi would you pay to be able to play this brick as your first move?

(I had this idea at the last Congress - I found someone to play it out with me, and I wound up killing the brick.)

Post by **Solomon** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:15 am

-6.5, you'd have to pay me to have that eyesore on the board.

skydyr · Post by **skydyr** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:16 am

I am far from an expert but I think your experience kind of highlights it... that brick looks pretty heavy, and I'm not sure the power in the corner is worth more than its liability.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:23 am

I would pay..

Li Kao · Post by **Li Kao** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:25 am

Area or territory scoring? It's worth more with area scoring.

shapenaji · Post by **shapenaji** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:43 am

20 with territory, 32 with area, not only does it have miai for extensions, but if they try to approach from either side you have massive endgame play

Koosh · Post by **Koosh** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:49 am

If I can play this brick as a first move, then I suppose I can play it anywhere on the board, right?

It reminds me of a Thwomp from Super Mario Brothers. It could be useful if carefully placed.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Wed Aug 15, 2012 11:59 am

My idea was to have it stuck in the corner.

@skydyr - it's a lot thicker than it looks (which is pretty thick, I guess). The guy with the brick played tenuki a lot of times before I was even able to get a ko.

cyclops · Post by **cyclops** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:22 pm

shapenaji wrote:20 with territory, 32 with area, not only does it have miai for extensions, but if they try to approach from either side you have massive endgame play

It seems logical that the difference between your numbers equals the number of black stones. Or does it imply that you are sure that black won't sacrify the lump?

shapenaji · Post by **shapenaji** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 3:24 pm

cyclops wrote:
shapenaji wrote:20 with territory, 32 with area, not only does it have miai for extensions, but if they try to approach from either side you have massive endgame play
It seems logical that the difference between your numbers equals the number of black stones. Or does it imply that you are sure that black won't sacrify the lump?

Black might sacrifice the lump, but if he does, he ought to get something bigger. It's too resilient to be a liability.

tchan001 · Post by **tchan001** » Thu Aug 16, 2012 7:13 pm

Shaddy wrote:
$$c
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
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$$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X |
$$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X X |
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$$ ---------------------------------------
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]
Suppose you're Black. How much komi would you pay to be able to play this brick as your first move?

(I had this idea at the last Congress - I found someone to play it out with me, and I wound up killing the brick.)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code: [go]$$c $$ --------------------------------------- $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . X X X | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , X X X | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . O , O . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O . O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . O O O . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . , . . . . . , . . . . . , . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ | . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . | $$ ---------------------------------------[/go]

I'll play this brick as my reply

lol

hyperpape · Post by **hyperpape** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 6:19 am

When y'all say 20, does that include standard komi, or is it on top of that?

Tooveli · Post by **Tooveli** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:55 am

It's a very odd position to evaluate. My feeling is if komi <= 23.5 I take Black otherwise I take White.

Yes 23.6 is just too much..

I wouldn't be surprised if the 'correct' answer is anywhere between 13 - 33.

I also think the correct komi probably changes a little depending on the strength of the players.

Shaddy · Post by **Shaddy** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:58 am

When I say 20, I'm including standard komi

HermanHiddema · Post by **HermanHiddema** » Fri Aug 17, 2012 7:59 am

I would prefer black if white had less than 30 komi (with territory scoring).

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