Yithril vs. Magicwand

The Intrepid
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by The Intrepid »

@ topazg
Wouldn't White then continue with 7, forcing Black into a less advantageous ko than before?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . 4 . . . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 1 2 X . . . . . . .
$$ | 8 3 7 X O . O . . . .
$$ | 9 X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | 6 X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]
Ontological imperative holds that my losses occurred only in imagination.
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by topazg »

@intrepid:

Quite right. I was thinking Black has miai, but he should probably take :w7: in yours first.

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . 4 . a . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 1 2 X . . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 6 X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


Because of "a", I'm struggling to see how White can restrict Black's liberties enough to create a ko..
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by The Intrepid »

@topazg
This should work, it seems:
Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . 4 . 7 . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 1 2 X 8 9 . . . . .
$$ | . 3 6 X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . X . O 1 . . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X X O . O . . . .
$$ | 2 X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


Edit: Never mind, this does not work ... hmm
Last edited by The Intrepid on Mon Aug 27, 2012 3:02 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by topazg »

@Intrepid:

Are you sure?

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------------
$$ | a X b O 1 . . . . . .
$$ | O O X X X O . . . . .
$$ | . O X X O . O . . . .
$$ | 2 X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | 3 X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


Now what? White can't play at "a", and so after "b" Black is unconditionally alive?
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by The Intrepid »

Just realized this myself :D
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by topazg »

Hehe :)

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . X 2 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | O O X X 4 . . . . . .
$$ | a O 1 X O . O . . . .
$$ | 5 X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


Even this is obviously alive, as White can't play at "a", and Black can.

EDIT: ok, an obvious ko:

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$B
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . X 2 3 . . . . . . .
$$ | O O X X 6 . . . . . .
$$ | 7 O 1 X O . O . . . .
$$ | 4 X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | 5 X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


However, this is a two step approach ko, so timing is difficult. I can't see a better way for White, but there may be one (mitsun is a lot stronger than I am).
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by The Intrepid »

Yeah, I can't see anything better than the approach ko either. Looks like this is Black's best option.
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by Magicwand »

R15 PEEP
"The more we think we know about
The greater the unknown"

Words by neil peart, music by geddy lee and alex lifeson
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Re: Yithril vs. Magicwand

Post by mitsun »

Topazg & Intrepid
I think the problem is symmetric -- B can play either way and W gets an approach move ko. In your sequence, W does not have to prevent B from playing (a) or throw-in to force B to play (a).

Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . 4 . a . . . . . . .
$$ | 5 1 2 X . . . . . . .
$$ | . 3 6 X O . O . . . .
$$ | . X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | . X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]


Click Here To Show Diagram Code
[go]$$W
$$ --------------------------
$$ | . X . 2 5 . . . . . .
$$ | O O X X 1 . . . . . .
$$ | . O X X O . O . . . .
$$ | 3 X X O . . . . . X .
$$ | 4 X O O . . . . . . .
$$ | . O . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . O . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$ | . . . . . . . . . . .
$$[/go]
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